Ignition timing

Tiny
LUKEMINDY
  • MEMBER
  • 1993 DODGE STEALTH
  • 3.0L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 217,000 MILES
I replaced my head gaskets on my car 3.0l SOHC I got the timing marks lined up perfect for the engine timing and I lined the distributor rotor button to and the car fires right up but idles very high no matter how much I adjust it. I set the rotor button to point at the number one plug on the cap at TDC the car starts right up and runs, but misses really bad. When I take off and accelerate I replaced distributor exc. My question is, when you position the rotor button will it point directly at the number one point of contact inside the cap or will it be a hair offset from it? And my other question is, can the ignition timing not being right on cause it to miss like that? And the heat gauge will start to rise going up hill but go back down on the flat. Can anyone help me figure this out?
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 11:11 PM

6 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
The rotor should be very close to pointing directly at cylinder 1 on the cap. Get it as close as possible and then you will need to turn it for adjusting ignition timing.

Here are the directions for installing the distributor. See if it helps. The attached pics correlate with the directions.

__________________

1993 Dodge Stealth V6-2972cc 3.0L SOHC
Distributor Assembly Replacement
Vehicle Powertrain Management Ignition System Distributor Service and Repair Procedures Distributor Assembly Replacement
DISTRIBUTOR ASSEMBLY REPLACEMENT
Distributor Alignment
pic 1

Distributor Alignment
pic 2

1. Turn the engine so that the piston of the number one cylinder is at top dead center of the compression stroke.

CAUTION: Care should be taken to insure that the number four cylinder is not used by mistake.

2. Align the distributor housing and gear mating marks.
3. Install the distributor into the engine while aligning the distributor's installation flange with the center of the distributor installation stud.

_________________________________

The ignition timing should be set. Take a look through these directions and let me know if it helps. To adjust timing, slowly turn the distributor in the direction needed to achieve the proper timing. You will need the idle to be around 700 rpm's to do this. The last set of directions explain how to set idle speed.
_________________________________

Ignition Timing
Vehicle Powertrain Management Emission Control Systems Adjustments Ignition Timing
IGNITION TIMING
ADJUSTMENT CONDITIONS:

Coolant temperature at 176 F-205 F.
All accessories turned OFF.
Transmission in N (Neutral).
Parking Brake, ON.

PROCEDURE:

Tachometer Hookup
pic 3

1. Install a paper clip into the tachometer check connector.
2. Connect a tachometer to the clip.

Ignition Timing Adjustment Connector
pic 4

3. With the engine OFF, ground the ignition timing adjustment terminal with a jumper lead.
4. Start the engine and allow it to run at curb idle speed.
5. Connect a timing light to the #1 spark plug wire and check the timing.

Basic Ignition Timing

5 2 BTDC.

6. If necessary loosen the distributor mounting nut and adjust timing by rotating the distributor.
7. Stop the engine.
8. Disconnect the ignition timing jumper wire and RE-START the engine.
9. Recheck the timing.

Actual Ignition Timing

15 BTDC.

NOTE: Actual ignition timing may vary slightly under the direction of the MPI controller. If necessary re-check Basic Ignition Timing. If it is still correct no further action is required.

__________________________________
Idle speed adjustment The remaining pics correlate with these directions.

1993 Dodge Stealth V6-2972cc 3.0L SOHC
Base Idle Speed Adjustment
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Idle Speed Adjustments Base Idle Speed Adjustment
BASE IDLE SPEED ADJUSTMENT
IDLE SPEED INSPECTION

NOTE:
a. Adjustment of the idle speed is usually unnecessary. Idle speed on fuel injected vehicles is controlled by the MPI Control Module through the Idle Speed Control Servo.

B. NEW FOR 1991: On Canadian model vehicles, the head lights, tail lights remain lit even after the headlight switch has been turned off. This is caused by the Daytime Running Light circuit, and does not indicate a problem.

Before starting the Inspection or Adjustment Procedures, be sure:

- Engine coolant temperature has reached 80-95 C (176-205 F)
- Lights, engine cooling fan, and electrical accessories are OFF
- Transaxle is in NEUTRAL or PARK
- Steering wheel is at a center position (power steering equipped vehicles)
- Parking brake is applied.
- Verify the ignition timing is set to 15 BTDC @ 700 +/- 100 RPM.

CAUTION: Improper setting of the throttle valve opening will increase exhaust gas temperatures at deceleration, which will greatly reduce the life of the Catalytic Converter. Also, fuel consumption and engine braking will be affected.

Tachometer Connection Using A Paper Clip
pic 5

1. Insert a paper clip into the 3-pin connector from the harness side of the connector. Do NOT disconnect the connector.

2. Connect a primary-voltage-detecting tachometer to the paper clip.
NOTE: The tachometer should indicate 1/3 of the actual engine speed. Multiply the tachometer reading by 3 for the actual engine speed.

Self-Diagnostic Connector Grounded (under dash drivers side)
pic 6

3. Using a jumper wire, ground the # 10 terminal of the Self-Diagnosis connector.

Ignition Timing Adjustment Terminal Grounded
pic 7

4. Using a second jumper wire, ground the Ignition Timing Adjustment Terminal, located in the engine compartment.

5. Start and run the engine for more than 5 seconds at 2,000 to 3,000 rpm.

6. Reduce the engine rpm to idle and check the Basic Idle Speed. 5 +/- 2 BTDC @ 700 +/- 50 RPM
If the idle speed is within specifications, proceed to step # 7.

NOTE: If the idle speed does not meet specifications, check the following before adjusting the Basic Idle Speed.

A. If the engine is stalling or the idle speed is below specifications, check for deposits stuck to the back of the throttle valve.
If so, refer to REPLACEMENT AND REPAIR PROCEDURES/THROTTLE VALVE.

B. If the engine idle speed is higher than specifications and the speed adjusting screw is fully closed. Then, check for indications that the Fixed Idle Speed Adjusting Screw has been altered. If so, proceed to FIXED SPEED ADJUSTMENT SCREW procedures.

C. If there is no indication, it is possible that there is leakage resulting from the deterioration of the Fast Idle Air Valve (FIAV). The throttle body will need to be replaced.

Adjusting The Idle Speed
pic 8

If none of the above conditions apply, then turn the speed adjusting screw until the engine is running at 700 +/- 50 RPM.

7. Turn OFF the engine.

8. Disconnect the grounding jumper wire from the diagnosis connector.

9. Disconnect the grounding wire form the Ignition Timing Adjustment Terminal and reinstall the waterproof connector.

10. Start the engine and let it idle for about 10 minutes. Verify that the engine idle is smooth and has returned to the Curb Idle Speed. 700 +/- 100 RPM

11. Disconnect and remove the tachometer.

_________________________________
Let me know if this helps.

Joe
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 11:42 PM
Tiny
LUKEMINDY
  • MEMBER
The info definitely helps. I aligned the rotor to where it pointed directly at the number one point of contact inside the cap, but it still misfires bad when I accelerate. But it starts fine but idles high. Should I move it just hair offset from where I have it now?
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 11:48 PM
Tiny
LUKEMINDY
  • MEMBER
So when I align the the distributor marks up and fit the distributor down onto it's stud that's where the right position for the rotor is?
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 11:58 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi,

As long as the engine is at TDC, the rotor should be pointing at number one on the cap. Once the cap is on and the engine is running, then you need to use a timing light to get the correct timing.

Joe
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Saturday, January 18th, 2020 AT 4:46 PM
Tiny
LUKEMINDY
  • MEMBER
Well, I have the distributor where it needs to be but my car still misses bad. It is really smooth driving when it s cold and only has a little miss, but when it s warmed up and I m the lower gears it misses and jumps like in a higher gear. When it s getting more gas it smooths out, but when I m in first gear and I m at a complete stop holding the brake I can feel it miss bad there too. I don t get it, I have checked everything. It s not the fuel because the way it runs it has power just misses bad.
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Sunday, January 26th, 2020 AT 1:26 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Interestingly, it could be related to fuel. If the regulator isn't reducing pressure, it could be too high. That would be more noticeable at an idle or lower RPM's. If you think about it, at a higher RPM, it would require more fuel. It's a theory at this point, but I would check pressure to confirm it isn't too high.

Here is a link that explains how to check fuel pressure:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Here are the directions specific to this vehicle. The manufacturer's specs are included in the directions. Also, the attached pictures correlate with the directions.

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1993 Dodge Stealth V6-2972cc 3.0L SOHC
Fuel Pressure Test
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Pump Fuel Pressure Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics Fuel Pressure Test
FUEL PRESSURE TEST
OPERATIONAL CHECK (QUICK CHECK):

1. Turn the ignition switch OFF

Fuel Pump Operational Test Hook-up
pic 1

2. Apply battery voltage to the fuel pump drive connector to power the fuel pump.
3. Pinch the fuel hose to check that fuel pressure is felt.
NOTE: The fuel pump is mounted in the fuel tank and it operates submerged in fuel, therefore its operating sound is hard to hear without removing the fuel filler cap.

PRESSURE TEST (DIAGNOSTIC CHECK):

1. Reduce the internal pressure of the pipes and hoses by the following procedures.
a. Disconnect the fuel pump harness at the rear of the fuel tank.
b. Start and run the engine until it stalls. Turn OFF the ignition key.
c. Disconnect the battery negative terminal.
d. Connect the fuel pump harness connector.

High Pressure Fuel Hose Connection
pic 2

2. Disconnect the high pressure fuel hose at the delivery end.
CAUTION: Cover the hose connector with a shop towel to prevent splashing of fuel caused by residual pressure in the fuel line.

Fuel Pressure Gauge Installed
pic 3

3. Using the fuel pressure gauge adapter (MB998742) or equivalent, install the fuel-pressure gauge to the delivery pipe (fuel rail).
4. Connect the battery negative terminal.
5. Apply battery power to the fuel pump drive terminal to activate the fuel pump. With fuel pressure applied check that no fuel is leaking at any of the connections.

Fuel Pressure Regulator, Vacuum Control Line Removed
pic 4

6. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the pressure regulator, and plug the hose end. Measure the fuel pressure at idle.

Standard Value:
47 - 50 psi (330 - 350 kPa).

7. Measure the fuel pressure when the vacuum hose is connected to the pressure regulator.

Standard Value:
38 psi (270 kPa)

NOTE: At the completion of steps 5 thru 7, prior to turning the ignition off, disconnect the battery power to the fuel pump drive terminal. If the engine stops and NO fuel pressure is observed, refer to COMPUTERS AND CONTROL SYSTEMS to diagnose the fuel pump power supply problem.
8. If the results of the measurements made in steps 6 and 7 are not within the standard values, refer to the symptoms listed below to determine the probable cause and make the necessary repairs before re-testing.
a. Fuel pressure too low:
1. Clogged fuel filter---Replace
2. Fuel bleeds down to return hose---Replace the fuel pressure regulator
3. Low pump output pressure---Check for leak in-line or replace fuel pump
b. Fuel pressure too high:
1. Regulator stuck closed---Replace the fuel pressure regulator
2. Clogged or bent fuel return hose---repair hose
c. No difference with or without vacuum connected:
1. Non-responsive regulator---Replace the fuel pressure regulator
2. Plugged vacuum line or no source vacuum---replace line or repair vacuum source
9. Stop the engine and check for a change in fuel pressure readings. Pressure should hold for 5 minutes. If the gauge reading drops, observe the rate of drop. Determine the cause according to the following symptoms.
a. Fuel pressure drops slowly:
1. Injector leakage---Identify leaking injector and replace.
2. Regulator is leaking to return line---Confirm and replace regulator.
3. Check valve in the fuel pump is leaking---Replace the pump.
b. Fuel pressure drops immediately:
1. Regulator is leaking to return line---Confirm and replace regulator.
2. Check valve in the fuel pump is open---Replace the pump.

10. At the completion of testing, remove the test equipment and reconnect the high pressure fuel hose to the fuel rail.

Torque value:
4 ft-lbs (5 Nm)

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Next, I want you to pull trouble codes. You don't need a scanner for this vehicle. Here is a link that explains how to do it.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/retrieve-trouble-codes-for-chrysler-dodge-plymouth-odb1-1995-and-earlier-car-mini-van-and-light-trucks

____________________________

Not being there makes it more difficult for me. However, if timing is correct and you find fuel pressure to be within spec, and there are no diagnostic trouble codes, we need to check for possible internal engine damage. You may simply have low compression in one or more cylinders.

Try the two things I mentioned above and let me know the results. Don't worry, we'll figure it out.

Let me know.
Joe

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Sunday, January 26th, 2020 AT 4:47 PM

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