Catalytic converter and oxygen sensor

Tiny
JILLWYKO
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 HONDA ACCORD
Engine problem
2003 Honda Accord 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Manual 122K miles

I would like to know what a fair price is, including labor, for the replacement of both a catalytic converter and oxygen sensor downstream. (These are the two codes that came up when the diagnostic testing was done.)
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Friday, January 11th, 2008 AT 11:36 AM

12 Replies

Tiny
MASTERTECHTIM
  • MEMBER
Its hard to say. What codes were there? If the light just came on and you had it checked out, I doubt if that many things are wrong with the car. If youve been driving for a long time with the light on, thats adifferent story.
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Friday, January 11th, 2008 AT 11:42 AM
Tiny
JILLWYKO
  • MEMBER
Thank you for the response. The codes that came up were P0141 and P0420. Does this help any? We have been driving it for maybe a couple of months with the check engine light on.
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Friday, January 11th, 2008 AT 12:07 PM
Tiny
MASTERTECHTIM
  • MEMBER
Your code 141 is the rear o2 sensor is bad. Your code 420 is cat converter low efficiency. A good mechanic would replace the 1 o2 sensor that is bad and have you drive the vehicle. You can not tell cat efficiency if your o2 sensor does not work. Also if the converter efficiency code comes back there is a reflash of the computer honda dealer can perform because they are having a problem with false setting code 420 on your vehicle. So in my opinion have the o2 sensor replaced and have codes cleared and drive vehicle, there very well could be nothing wrong with your cat converter. What they are doing is what we call a shotgun blast. Replace every single component in the system so there is no way the light will come back on.
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Friday, January 11th, 2008 AT 12:30 PM
Tiny
R/J
  • MEMBER
Thanks a Million, those Honda guys really know how to rip people off, of course they are not different, than any other service a common man needs, no matter what it is, totally pissed with todays" GRAB, GRAB, AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND TO HELL WITH THE OTHER GUY, SOCIETY". That's my rant for today, sorry it was you people that had to get it. LOL.
R/J
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Wednesday, April 5th, 2017 AT 1:30 PM
Tiny
R/J
  • MEMBER
In the same vehicle what does DRL mean?
In the same vehicle what does DRL. Mean
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Wednesday, April 5th, 2017 AT 1:33 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
You'd be singing a totally different tune if YOU were the mechanic getting screamed at. We are accused of selling you unneeded parts, then when we try to save you a few bucks, it always comes back to bite us. Most get even angrier when they have to put off their golf game to bring the car back a second time. Why do you hold us to much higher standards than you do your doctor? We have to relearn new systems and repair procedures for hundreds of models at least every year, and sometimes twice per year. Doctors only have to learn two models in varying sizes for their entire careers.

YOU are the one who bought a car with all kinds of computers and technology that were never needed before. It's not my fault that the vibration, moisture, salt, and dirt are the worst possible environment for electronics to live in, and you insist on your new car having all that ridiculous entertainment and toys. It's a miracle the dozens of computer modules and electrical connectors hold up as well as they do.

We know from experience what is likely to cause more problems for you in the future when we recommend parts or services that you think aren't needed. In my extended community of well over 100,000 people, we have dozens of new-car dealers, and about 70 independent repair shops. Of all of them, only the Chevy dealer is a well-known crook. People who insist on owning a Chevy drive 15 or 30 miles to a different dealer. We also used to have one independent shop owner who was a rip-off artist. He is out-of-business now because he ran out of customers. Of all the rest of the shops, I got to know them from years of being an Automotive instructor at my community college. I have never heard a former student say they heard a boss or coworker say, "how can we rip someone off today?" What is really on our mind is "how can we avoid a lawsuit today?" And I'm not referring to simple disagreements over charges. I'm referring to the things car owners do to their cars that can make US a party to a lawsuit we had nothing to with. You know doctors order more tests than necessary to cover their butts. We have to weigh the impact on your wallet against the chance your car will be coming back on a tow truck in a few months.

I was also a tv / vcr repairman for over 35 years. One shop owner was so uncommonly honest and reputable that he kept three people employed in a tiny community of 2,000 people. I also helped out a few times for a guy in my city who had all kinds of tricks to rip people off. I learned a lot to look out for and warn people about. Some people thought he was so helpful and honest because he put on a good show, but he too ran out of customers thanks to word-of-mouth advertising.

So you see, you're accusing an entire industry based on a very limited set of experiences. Every profession has its people who ruin the reputation for their entire industry. You would have a very different opinion if you had worked for the very nice family-owned Chrysler dealership I worked at. Every week we had grateful customers stop in to bring us donuts and cookies. If you don't leave your repair shop with the same gratitude, look at the attitude you walked in with. I have to wonder why some of the service writers behind the desk even bother to show up each morning. We didn't design the car. We didn't build the car. I didn't sell you the car, and I didn't break the car, yet it's me you're angry with.

By the way, my daily driver is a rusty trusty '88 Dodge Grand Caravan with only a single Engine Computer. I have all the same power windows, power locks, power mirrors, rear heater and AC, rear wiper, radio, and automatic transmission, and NONE of those needs a computer. I'll buy another new car when I can replace parts on it that don't have to be programmed by the dealer. We don't like the over-use of unneeded technology either. We often reminisce about the older cars, and how wonderful it would be if we could repair those models with the knowledge we have today. That would equate to a retired heart surgeon being asked to remove splinters.

"DRL" is "daytime running lamps". That's another "feature" the engineers decided we must have, for the people too stupid or lazy to turn on a light switch themselves.
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Wednesday, April 5th, 2017 AT 6:48 PM
Tiny
R/J
  • MEMBER
Hello Guys.
I offer my sincerest "APOLIGIES'". I was not referring to you as honest business men, I agree totally with everything you said, (I am not sucking up either), What I meant to say without thinking about the fact, that some of these BIG companies and that applies, all over the planet we live on. Those RICH businessmen call it doing business, when it is actually (WHITE COLLAR CRIME). You people know this as well as any person with an infinite grain of sense would know it. I appreciate your internet program more than you will ever know, as I am on a pension, ergo why I get so upset. Accept my apology or not, that is your prerogative, and that is all I have yo say on the SUBJECT. I appreciate your reading of this e-mail.
R/J
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Wednesday, April 5th, 2017 AT 9:00 PM
Tiny
R/J
  • MEMBER
By the way my question, still has not been answered.
R/J
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Wednesday, April 5th, 2017 AT 9:02 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
My last paragraph referred to your question. "DRL" is "daytime running lamps".

Your frustration is exceeded only by my own. I am an electronics expert, a suspension and alignment specialist, and a brake systems specialist. As such, I should not have to take my vehicles to a dealership to have repairs performed or to have replacement computers programmed. Carpenters don't have to hire a carpenter to do repairs around their homes. Accountants don't have to hire accountants. Why do mechanics have to pay someone else to do their repairs?

The gouging you're referring to is determined at the corporate level and does not involve the dealers or their mechanics. Specifically, I call these "customer unfriendly business practices", and I describe them often here. I first became aware of this issue back in the '70s and is why I am a fan of one certain manufacturer to this day. It took a story from a national-level trainer to put my opinions into words. According to that instructor, Hyundai, Toyota, and Chrysler are the top three manufacturers in the world for customer-friendly business practices. That means as a company, they put customer satisfaction ahead of profits, or they make corporate decisions that are in their customers' best interest. At the bottom of that list is GM, VW, Audi, and BMW. They have a lot of business practices that drain their customers' wallets after the sale, and is why they have to constantly keep advertising for new customers.

GM was one of the first to come up with computers that have to be programmed to the vehicle so you have to go back to the dealer. They were the first to stop allowing me to buy radio service manuals so they could lock up all that lucrative repair business for their two grossly-over-priced repair centers. They have all kinds of other tricks to squeeze money from their customers. They are also one of the leaders in adding over-complicated, unnecessary, and unreliable technology to our vehicles.

Chrysler has been the leading innovator at developing a huge list of things that directly benefit us, since the fifties. The problem is everyone else copies those systems, but only after Chrysler gets the bad reputation before the bugs are worked out.

I don't mind buying test equipment, but if I'm not allowed to buy something I need, or I can't work on the vehicle myself, I won't own it. The day any manufacturer builds a car without all the unneeded computers to run lights and windows, I'll buy it.
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Thursday, April 6th, 2017 AT 8:24 PM
Tiny
R/J
  • MEMBER
Thanks for your reply, I drive a1998 Dodge Dakota 4x4 club cab. This vehicle is a 5 speed manual, and hasn't any frills, just the basics, it is the best little truck I have ever had, it has had the normal fixes for those years, example, heater core replacement, tie rod ends replacement, the rust on the rear wheel wells a really poor design that catches water and salt, I think that by looking at the newer models they have fixed the issue, which to my inspection didn't take a whole lot of smarts. I am in the process of redoing these rust patches and a little general body work. This vehicle has a v/6 engine and 240,000 thousand km on it, it runs like a charm, my own personal test that an engine is performing at the best efficiency is that, (when you can rub your finger inside the vehicle's tail pipe and not get any, or just a smudge of greyish black, then that is peak performance), regardless of what any test equipment will tell you, I own blue point test equipment and it makes my life a lot easier, but there are still the old tried and true tricks of the trade, that I was lucky to have passed on to me from my father and grandfather, I always try to remember, that if you are working on an internal combustion engine, they all work on the same physics. Myself I don't need all the fancy gadgets of today, it's a throwaway society we are living in, when I finally throw something out to the trash, it is absolutely of no use to anyone else, a person can become a millionaire, if that's what they want, by just going around back alleys and picking up the" GOLD" that people throw away, " SHEESH". Well anyway tks. For your reply, I look forward to a fine relationship with your internet program.
R/J
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Friday, April 7th, 2017 AT 4:36 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
You could be my brother. I too get the last ounce of life out of everything. My last daily driver was an old '88 rusty trusty Grand Caravan. (I'm looking for a rust-free one from down south, but it must have 15" wheels). My old one has over 420,000 miles, and the oil wasn't changed in over 15 years. That ended up being an experiment to show my students what some engines are capable of. I used that van to drag a tandem axle enclosed trailer to the Iola Old Car Show swap meet for 15 years. Never even needed to hook up the trailer's brakes. Can't do that with my '89, '94 or '95 Grand Caravans. They have the 4-speed computer-controlled transmissions. Those would explode before I got to the end of my driveway.
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Friday, April 7th, 2017 AT 4:42 PM
Tiny
R/J
  • MEMBER
I hear that man, my 98 Dodge hasn't had the oil changed since I bought it seven years ago and it is still looking' good, I say if it isn't broke dont' mess with it. Again I thank you for your timely reply. Feel free to send a message at any tine, by the way that 2003 Honda I have for sale, it has a broken catalytic converter sensor, some one tried to replace it snd has rounded off all of the wrench fittings, They don't know the intense heat that is generated by those converters, but with the on board computer it has to be chsanged out. I will put the heat to it and hope for the best, that's it for now.
R/J
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Friday, April 7th, 2017 AT 6:02 PM

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