Engine will not crank?

Tiny
TRISCUIT
  • MEMBER
  • 1986 TOYOTA PICKUP
  • 2.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 125,000 MILES
I've copy and pasted some of the information from my previous thread:

I was finally able to get the battery fully charged again and tested over at AutoZone & they say the battery is good. I'm getting about 12.65 - 12.69v from it.

I removed, cleaned, sanded and reattached the ends of both the (+) and (-) battery cables to ensure good connections.

I then checked for the voltage from the battery-side (+) end to the connection on the starter & that is 12.63v. I also put the (+) lead from my multimeter on the (+) connection of the starter and the (-) lead of the multimeter on the starter body and got about 12. 60 - 12.65v.

I've already had a "hot shot" installed on the truck due to the well-known issue of needing 12+ volts running through the ignition switch in order to engage the starter & the consequential voltage drop that occurs from having to go through so many points. Also, it wears out the ignition switch. That's not it. I never had a strong, solid start consistently (sometimes yes, sometimes no) but after the hot shot installation the intermittent no-start went away.

I tried turning the engine once and heard a click immediately followed by the starter engaging. For about a half second before shutting off and everything went dead. I then immediately turned the key to ACC and still got dash lights.

Then I did the previously mentioned cleaning and reattaching and tried again. Same thing, but this time when I tried the get lights again immediately afterwards it was like the battery was dead again.

So, in short:
-sometimes I get lights, a click, and the starter attempts to engage
-sometimes I get no lights, no click, or engagement from the starter
-sometimes I get lights and a click (this happens most often)

I was able to rotate the engine just fine with the spark plugs out (that's how I discovered the coolant coming out of the #2 plug hole) but couldn't get it to move with the plugs in. Don't think anything is locked up internally.

I also put one lead on the (-) battery terminal and one at the starter relay and get from 12.57 - 12.41v when I turn the key to start.

I guess next would be to remove the starter and attempt to bench test it & make sure it has good ground to the engine block? I'll try tapping the solenoid area before starting the engine again tomorrow.

Update:
Okay. I tested the trigger wire's connection through my hot shot (pictures included). I wasn't sure which wire (white or blue) was for the trigger wire since they're connected inside of a split loom that I didn't want to risk peeling back/off, so I tested each wire.

The blue one would give a reading of 0.01v when I turned the key to run.
The white wire would get a reading of 11.40v.
The battery has discharged a little, so I put it back on a trickle charger.

Unlike on my previous attempt where the starter would attempt to start then nearly immediately stop, this time I heard no cranking sound whatsoever (just a click) any of the times I tried to start the engine.

The photos are of the hot shot that my starter is wired into - there are additional photos earlier in this message string.

The video is of my turning the key to RUN with the lead on the white wire's location of the hot shot relay.

This relay was installed to bypass the long-distance voltage travels in the original, factory wiring that eventually causes intermittent starting issues solely because not enough voltage makes it to the final location to initialize the starter and/or the contacts wear out and pit. I think I also mentioned this in a previous post on this thread. Happy to explain more if needed.
Wednesday, August 30th, 2023 AT 12:55 PM

10 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,269 POSTS
Hi,

The white wire is the power supply to the secondary side of the starter relay. If the relay is being actuated, power to reach the starter motor's black with a yellow tracer wire when the key is in the start position.

I attached the starter wiring schematic below.

Let me know if that is what you are getting. Note: In the video, the multimeter turns, and I can't see the readings.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Wednesday, August 30th, 2023 AT 8:49 PM
Tiny
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I went out again with a fully charged battery registering 12.63v.

The first try I forgot to hit play on my phone, but I got a 1/4-second-long crank then nothing= no lights, no click, no crank. I tried a few more times and it was more of the same, so I went inside for about an hour then went back out.

The second time I got what you see in the video where I attempt to start the engine three times. After the first three attempts it's back to no lights and no crank and I'm sure if I give it more time and go back out, I'll have lights and at least a click, again.

Q1.) Why the dead response that turns to lights and a click if I wait enough time?

As I'm sure you can see in the video the first two attempts give little voltage change but the third one goes up to 2.44v (with sparks!).

Q2) Does the starter's trigger wire need to be replaced?

Thanks.

All of this to try to get to the point so that I can do a compression test to find out what else is wrong. Haha. Geez.
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Friday, September 1st, 2023 AT 6:05 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Are the sparks from the battery cable? If it is, that is the likely problem, a weak connection.

Take a look at this link:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/everything-goes-dead-when-engine-is-cranked

The starter places a heavy load on the battery. If there is a poor connection, you are losing contact and power flow. That can shut down the electrical.

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, September 1st, 2023 AT 10:44 PM
Tiny
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I did a voltage drop test on the negative battery cable. The video shows the results, but it looks like I get the following after each try: 0.81v, 0.84v (with sparks), and 0.73v (no sparks but some smoke). I turned the key three different times, and the truck never went completely dead with the multimeter leads attached. Interesting.

The cable and post on the (-) side was definitely warmer than the (+) side. The cable itself looks completely fine aside from the sparking at the battery post. There are no cracks, bulges, corrosion, etc.

Update: I had a thought regarding the size of the wingnut that holds down the (-) cable on the marine post I've got on the battery. It's small, smaller than the (+) side. I grabbed a washer and put it over the cable then tightened down the wingnut and low and behold, the engine's starter gave me more. I got some gas running through the line and the engine finally cranked over. :)

Now onto the compression test.

Thanks for the help, Joe (and Ken)!
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Wednesday, September 6th, 2023 AT 6:08 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Have you removed the starter yet? I would have it bench-tested. It's getting power for sure.

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, September 6th, 2023 AT 6:20 PM
Tiny
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Update: You were right to begin with. No need to remove the starter - the negative battery cable was hissing and spitting due to too much resistance. My previous post and video showed that. But then, I had a thought regarding the size of the wingnut that holds down the (-) cable on the marine post on the battery. It's small, smaller than the (+) side and doesn't likely create enough surface contact for the cable. I grabbed a washer and put it over the cable then tightened down the wingnut on top it and low and behold, the engine's starter gave me more. I got some gas running through the line and the engine finally cranked over. :)

Hooray! The starter is fine and so are the battery cables.

Now onto the compression test.

Thanks for the help, Joe (and Ken)!
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Wednesday, September 6th, 2023 AT 6:39 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Thank you for the update. I'm glad to know you got it running. It's amazing how something simple can cause major problems.

Regardless, feel free to come back anytime in the future. You are always welcome here.

Take care,

Joe
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Thursday, September 7th, 2023 AT 1:20 PM
Tiny
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Thanks, Joe. I'll be back in the future. I appreciate that you all are patient and easy to chat with. So many folks in this industry are gruff and talk at people forgetting that at one point they also didn't have the knowledge and needed help.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2023 AT 5:19 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I'm glad to hear you'll be back. The only problem is, that indicates a new problem for you. LOL And I agree with you. Some people forget they had to start somewhere too. It's frustrating.

Regardless, take good care of yourself and I hope to see you again. (And I don't mean I hope something breaks. LOL)

Joe
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Thursday, September 7th, 2023 AT 7:14 PM
Tiny
TRISCUIT
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Haha, yes, indeed! Well, I wrote in initially because I have coolant coming out of my 2nd spark plug hole after two years of letting the truck sit and am now wondering if the head gasket had been blown for quite some time (symptoms listed in an article you shared). So, I started a new thread regarding that.

See you soon! Lol.
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Friday, September 8th, 2023 AT 2:38 PM

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