Engine runs when cold but dies with no spark condition hot

Tiny
DICEBERG
  • MEMBER
  • 1988 CHRYSLER NEW YORKER
  • 90 MILES
Originally the car had two issues and would not start cold. The cold start was the filter lines installed backwards which was corrected. The second issue is the loss of spark when warmed up. This is the 3.0 cols startup is good but once engine gets hot it dies and will not restart. Codes are 12 and 13. 13 points towards the map sensor, but I can not see how that would effect spark. I jumped the coil to force a start but still had a no spark condition, seeing as the coil was not secured in its mount, I am close to deciding that it is in fact the coil. I am going to cold start it until it dies then try to fire the coil manually to verify if it is firing. My question is to inquire if there is a relay that could also be breaking the circuit for the coil. The engine controller was replaced previously.
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Thursday, July 18th, 2013 AT 9:12 PM

7 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
I assume this is the front-wheel-drive model and not the rear-wheel-drive New Yorker / 5th Ave, based on the parts you mentioned. First you need to list the engine size. If you have the 2.2L turbo, suspect the Hall Effect pickup assembly in the distributor. Those were a high-failure item and a lot of people carried spares in the glove box.

With either engine current for the ignition coil, injectors, alternator field, and fuel pump or pump relay comes through the automatic shutdown (ASD) relay. To determine if that is turning on, measure the voltage at the coil or any injector. You will see 12 volts for one second after turning on the ignition switch. What's important is if that voltage comes back during cranking.
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Thursday, July 18th, 2013 AT 10:19 PM
Tiny
DICEBERG
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Engine is a 3.0 v6. I did suspect the hall effect or ignition module in the distibutor, but deemed that unlikely due to good cold start but I will look at it again. I am also going to check the current at the ignition switch in the morning. Oh and I believe it is the rear wheel drive new yorker, it is my neighbors car she is a sweet many years young lady who just lost her husband and her dog. She mentioned the car to me while my dog and I were visiting her so I really do not know that much about its history except that she took it to two garages and they could not figure it out, so I said I would try. I will check the voltages and what not in the morning while she plays fetch with my dog thank you much for the promt reply.

She did mention that the battery died and it was jumped by a tow truck driver shortly before the problem started, which is why I focused on relays.
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Thursday, July 18th, 2013 AT 10:49 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
You have the front-wheel-drive model. Those had the 3.0L or 2.2L turbo. The rear-wheel-drive model is much larger and had the 318 c.I. V-8. They made those through 1989.

Once you take the voltage reading when the no-start occurs, if you find 0 volts during cranking, the most likely suspect is the crankshaft position sensor. There should be a diagnostic fault code related to that. It would have been erased if the battery ran dead but if the sensor failed again while the engine was running that code should have set again. Chrysler makes reading fault codes real easy. Cycle the ignition switch three times from "off" to "run" within five seconds, then count the flashes of the Check Engine light. There will be a series of flashes representing the first digit of the code, a short pause, then a series of flashes for the second digit, then a longer pause before the next code number flashes. Code 12 can be ignored and code 55 means "end of message".

Crankshaft position sensors often fail by becoming heat-sensitive and will work again after they cool down for a half hour. The pickup assembly in the distributor for the 3.0L causes very little trouble.
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Thursday, July 18th, 2013 AT 11:53 PM
Tiny
DICEBERG
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Yeah your right its front wheel drive. While checking all the wiring harnesses I found corrosion on the red positive of what some guides call the main relay, or the asd relay. Cleaned the connector wiggled it on and heard the relay engage. Car started right up. My local dealers dont have an exact match, so using the old one until I can find a proper replacement.
Took the distributer apart cleaned out dust and made sure the timing disk was in good shape. No crank position sensor on this model, thats handled by the distributor.

I appreciate the promt replies.
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Friday, July 19th, 2013 AT 9:05 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
There's nothing special about the ASD relay. You'll find one in a salvage yard. They're a very low-failure item.
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Friday, July 19th, 2013 AT 9:14 PM
Tiny
DICEBERG
  • MEMBER
Changed the asd relay. Car ran fine for a total of 4 hours straight then when parked and cooled down no power to coil again. Checked relay and it was engaging. My only guess right now is a short on the green black wire that brings power to the coil and fuelpump. Car will start if I jump a hot to the positive of the coil. Any ideas would be welcome.
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Saturday, July 27th, 2013 AT 2:44 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Wouldn't be a short on that wire because that would burn open a fuse link wire. Plus, jumping 12 volts to the coil would feed that short and your wire would burn up. You most likely have an open circuit meaning a break in that wire.

First of all, when you say the ASD relay is turning on, do you mean for that one second after turning on the ignition switch or during cranking? If it's turning on during cranking but there's no voltage at the positive terminal on the ignition coil, this is going to become a rather easy fix. You can turn the ignition switch off, remove the ASD relay, then jump the two wires with a stretched-out paper clip or piece of wire. The two wires to jump will be the two fatter ones, and one will be that green / black wire. Now you should have 12 volts at the ignition coil. If you do not, flex the harnesses to see which one makes that voltage come and go. Also look for a harness that travels along the left inner fender and under the battery tray. That one often moves back and forth during acceleration and when changing between drive and reverse.

Also check for 12 volts on the two smaller wires bolted to the back of the alternator. If you have it there but not at the coil, there is a corroded splice. If you don't have 12 volts anywhere, check right at the wires you jumped on the relay socket. If it's missing there, the problem is in the circuit that feeds the relay, not the green / black wire after the relay.
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Saturday, July 27th, 2013 AT 6:50 PM

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