94 Chev 6.5 turbo diesel starting problem

Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • 1994 CHEVROLET TRUCK

:( :cry: I have a 94 chevy 3500 automatic with a 6.5 diesel, vehicle has 108K miles.
Will not start, always ran and started fine before, checked for codes, noted a 13 and 62.
Suspect the 13 may be the problem. Would really appreciate any assistance on this, driving me crazy. Experienced with Gas engines, not very strong on diesels
?
Thank you!
:)

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Saturday, July 8th, 2006 AT 6:27 AM

24 Replies

Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

DTC 13 trouble shooting
-ignition off
-disconnect engine shutoff solenoid connector
-ignition on
-probe test light from termial B to gnd
Light off-check for open or short to ground (Fuse?)
Light on-Probe test light from A and B terminals.

Light on-faulty engine shutoff connection or faulty engine shutoff solenoid
Light off-Check for open in line to PCM or faulty pcm.

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Saturday, July 8th, 2006 AT 3:15 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

Thank you for the reply to my question! :)

Please I'm still confused. :Oops:
You indicated two scenarios:
Light on-faulty engine shutoff connection or faulty engine shutoff solenoid
Light off-Check for open in line to PCM or faulty pcm.

Is there a normal result? I'm not sure what to do.

Thanks again.

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Sunday, July 9th, 2006 AT 5:16 AM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

Well, The DTC 13 trouble code indicates a problem in the Engine feul shutoff valve system. This trouble shooting procedure is assuming there is a problem.
First test. Probe test light from b to gnd. If the light is off, you are not getting power to the engine shutoff valve from the ignition switch. If the light is on, then u have power like you are supposed to.
Second test. If you had power to the valve, we need to test to see if we are getting a good ground signal from the PCM. To do this probe pins a nad b of the plug, and if you get a light on, then that means you have power and a ground to activate this valve. Under this case, then we should suspect a bad engine shut-off solenoid or bad connection at that solenoid. If you do not get a ground, then either the PCM is is faulty, or there is a open in the wiring from the solenoid to the PCM.
If you have no ground to the engine shut-off solenoid, you can check for continuity from pin a of the shut-odd solenoid to pin E16 of the PCM. If that wire is good, then the PCM is not sending a ground to the solenoid. Pin 15 of the engine harness is a break point if you need to trouble shoot an open wire from the solenoid to the PCM.

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Sunday, July 9th, 2006 AT 1:58 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

I'll try this today, thank you!

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Monday, July 10th, 2006 AT 6:45 AM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

I tried testing for voltage at the connector-- disconnected the shutoff solenoid. Used a test light to probe the harness socket. Turned ignition on, probed each terminal to ground, nothing! :( Repeated test with wife cranking the engine, nothing. :Cry: Checked all connections that I could find, seem secure, no signs of mice chewing, and checked fuses, seem to be ok. Ready to plant flowers in the truck.
Any more ideas or should I toss in the towel and get it towed away to the dealer :roll:

Thank you to everyone that has replied with suggestions, I'm still sort of optimistic.

George :wink:

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Tuesday, July 11th, 2006 AT 6:10 AM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

Wow, I hate that I left for a few days. If you havent gotten it fixed, I am looking at the diagram, and if you have no power on the pink wire, pin "B", then it looks like you may have either a flown fuse titled "ALT 20A", a bad ignition switch, or a open in the wiring connecting the Engine shut-off solenoid to the ignition switch.

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Thursday, July 13th, 2006 AT 4:10 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

Thank you,
Does the wiring diagram show the wiring path from the Fuel Shut off solenoid back to the ignition?

Does it share a common path with something else, is there something else that I can check to confirm the line is dead?

Thanks :)
George

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Friday, July 14th, 2006 AT 3:45 AM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

It doesnt really give a good diagram to show if anything is common on the same line. It does show a 20amp fuse between the ignition switch and the shut-off solenoid. I would try and find that on the fuse block. The oly title it gives is "ALT", so I am not sure if it will be listed like that, or share a fuse with something else. It should share the Fuel driver Solenoid, so maybe that is going to be the title in the fuse block. If you find that fuse blown, then you may have a bad solenoid, or driver that has blown the fuse. If the fuse is good, then you have to find the break in the line between the fuse and the solenoid.
This is all assuming that the ignition switch is good, and allowing power to flow. I so wish I had my meter and your truck. I would wring it out and have a answer for you asap.
Good luck, and sorry I can be more help.

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Friday, July 14th, 2006 AT 2:32 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

:D
Thanks MikeyD!
:D :) 8) :shock:
I had checked the fuses that sounded logical, glo plug, ign, etc.

Following your advice on a fuse problem, I proceeded to check all of them, found a burned 20 amp, sort of obscure, upper right of fuse block, hard to see.

The fuse socket was not represented in the 5 fuse block illustrations in my manual.

Marked as FSS :oops: -Duh George :oops:,
Fuel shutoff solenoid.

Anyway, replaced it, now getting power to the Fuel Shutoff solenoid, solenoid seems to energize, it clicks when key is turned on.

Assume the purpose is to lift the lower plunger to allow fuel to flow?

Truck almost starts/will fire for a second. Seems like it is starving for fuel. Filter is new, bled etc. Still getting the code 13.

Assume the solenoid is not opening fully, will order one today.

Does this sound logical?

Thanks again
George (N.J.)

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Sunday, July 16th, 2006 AT 6:40 AM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

It does sound logical, and it probably was bad and burnt the fuse in the first place. Hopefully this will solve the problem.
In looking at the Engine Shutoff Solenoid Circuit, the Engine shut-off Solenoid is in the circuit, but it points an arrow off the page to the Fuel Driver Solenoid. I guess if the engine shut-off is not what is bad, I would look at the fuel driver solenoid.
But I think you are on the right track and will have it fixed soon. You may have to replace the fuse again if it blew when you were testing it.

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Sunday, July 16th, 2006 AT 3:26 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

Mikeybdman,
You threw me a new term, ? Fuel Driver Solenoid,
Where will I fiind that, can you describe?

Thanks
George

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Sunday, July 16th, 2006 AT 8:11 PM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

I found this service bulletin and it seems to hit your problem on the head. Sorry I even mentioned the other soleniod. I am not sure if that is just another term for the same solenoid or not, but I cant find any information about it other than on the botom of the schematic for the shut-off solenoid.

File In Section: 6E - Engine Fuel & Emission

Bulletin No: 87-63-04

Date: April, 1998

Subject:
Hard Start, No Start, DTC 13 or P0215, Service Engine Soon Light On (Replace Electronic Shutoff Solenoid on Vehicle)

Models:
1994-99 Chevrolet and GMC C, K, G Models
with 6.5L Diesel Engine (VINs F, P, S, Y - RPOs L65, L49, L56, L57)

Condition

Some owners may comment that their vehicle is difficult to start or will not start. In addition, the Service Engine Soon light may be illuminated.

Correction

If DTC 13 (1994-95 model years) or PO215 (1996-99 model years) diagnostics lead to injection pump replacement, a new on-vehicle replacement procedure is available for the ESO (Electronic Shutoff Solenoid. This procedure eliminates the need to replace the entire injection pump.

Parts Information

Description
Solenoid, Electronic Shut Off P/N 12561591

Parts are currently available through GMSPO. Do not contact your Stanadyne dealer to obtain this part.

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation Description Labor Time

J5973 Electronic Shut Off 0.2 hr (C/K)
Solenoid - Replace 0.8 hr (G-Van)

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Sunday, July 16th, 2006 AT 8:33 PM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

Ok, I found an image of the Electronic Fuel Injection Pump. On it shows the Engine Shutoff Solenoid, Fuel Solenoid Driver, and one listed as the Fuel Solenoid. The driver looks like a position sensor for the engine shutoff solenoid. That is probably why it is on the same circuit.

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Sunday, July 16th, 2006 AT 8:40 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

Mikeybd,
Thanks for your efforts!
Botom line at this point, things seem to point to the fuel shutoff solenoid correct?

If you know of a place to get this for less money, that would be great too!

Thx--
George

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Monday, July 17th, 2006 AT 6:00 AM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

That looks like the solenoid. You can take a look at the injector pump thingy and compare photos, but it looks like the correct part. $100 sounds like a pretty good price also. I try and buy most of my parts from www. Gmpartsdirect. Com, but Im not sure if they are going to carry this one.
If you would like to try, and you dont find the part listed in their catalog, I would email them and have them look up the part number for you.
Good luck, and I hope this fixes you right up.

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Monday, July 17th, 2006 AT 1:54 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

Waiting for the part to arrive, hope it does the trick, will let you know, thanks again. :)

George

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Thursday, July 20th, 2006 AT 5:08 AM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

:( :cry: Replaced the Fuel Shutoff solenoid, same problem persists.
Truck will fire, almost start, but no go.
Opened the fuel filter bleeder, fuel surges out.
Tried cranking with the gas cap on, gas cap off.
Tried pumping the pedal while cranking.

Still getting a code 13, followed by a 62.

Any comments would be appreciated.
George

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Saturday, July 22nd, 2006 AT 7:04 AM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

I know this may sound stupid, but did you replace the fuse again? If the new fuse blew before you replaced the solenoid, it will still fault the circuit.
I am assuming that you replaced the fuse and the problem still is there and it blew the new fuse. I will be researching for where to go next.

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Saturday, July 22nd, 2006 AT 2:38 PM
Tiny
MIKEYBDMAN
  • MEMBER

Ok my friend, we are going to fix this now for sure. Ok, if you find that the Fuel Solenoid fuse was blown again, here is what we need to do. Disconnect the Engine shut off solenoid. Insert a new 20amp fuse in the f/sol fuse slot. And turn the ignition switch on. Did the fuse blow with the solenoid disconnected?
If yes. You have a short in the wire 339 (PNK) between the fuse box and the solenoid. To break this circuit apart, disconnect the fuel solenoid driver which is located on the same pump assembly as the solenoid. It will have a 6 pin connector with a pink wire 339 also. With this disconnected, put a new fuse in and turn the ignition switch on. Did the new fuse blow?
If no, replace fuel solenoid driver (if possible).
If yes, then the short is still active in the wiring. Disconnect the Engine Harness Connector (15 pin). Try a new fuse to see if the short is on either side of the connector. The 339 PNK wire is pin F of the connector. A test you can do is with the ignition switch off, and the fuse removed, and our connector disconnected, test for a ground on either side of the fuse. The short is on the side that has a ground. I suppose it could ne a bad ignition switch causing the fuse to blow, but I would make sure you dont have a bad wire first.

Now, all the way back to our first test when we first disconnected the engine shut off solenoid and tried a new fuse. If the new fuse did not blow with the solenoid disconnected and ignition swith on, the you may have gotten a bad or incorrect solenoid. I would contact the supply company and see if there is a test you can do on the solenoid to seeif it is bad. Probably a resistance check between pin a and b. Im not sure what the resistance should be, but it should be something other than straight to ground.

My thoughts on this problem are like this. It is a very simple circuit, and if you are still blowing fuses, then something is drawing too much current. Solenoids are usually a good source for this, but lets assume the new one you installed is good. I look at the fluel solenoid driver and possibly the ignition switch. But before I spend any more of my hard earned money, I try and eliminate the wiring for having shorts.
It sounds like you have a hard fault, and if it blows the fuses everytime you turn the ignition switch on, it should be easy to track down the cause. Disconnect the current drawing sources, and then check wiring for faults.
If you dont fix it soon, I am going to have to jump on a plane and come fix it for you. You dont know how frustrating it is to not be able to get my hands on the problem and kicks its but.

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Saturday, July 22nd, 2006 AT 3:14 PM
Tiny
GHHMTNBOY
  • MEMBER

Hi Buddy,
The fuse did not blow. :( Would have made this easier with the great trouble shooting tips you gave me

Will reach out on testing Fuel Shut off solenoid today.

Next step might be to change the PMD?

Thanks again-

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Tuesday, July 25th, 2006 AT 6:03 AM

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