1992 Cadillac Deville V8 Front Wheel Drive Automatic 163000 miles
My 92 Cadillac Deville usually runs great, starts always. I have been having some trouble with it quitting while I'm driving. It just shuts down. It doesn't sound like a sputtering dying engine (like a lawn mower dying when it's out of gas), it's quiet and just suddenly shuts off, and then I can start it right back up. A couple of years ago my fuel pump went out (that sounded like a lawn mower dying) while the car was in park-idling. I had the fuel pump and filter replaced by a very good mechanic (this was October 2005, odometer 114099). I never had any symptoms prior to the fuel pump going out so I don't exactly know if these current symptoms might be a sign of a repeat issue with the fuel pump or maybe something new. I don't know how long a fuel pump should last. The OBD gives no codes. I have spent several hours on this site trying to do some investigating. I have read many other entries about the 92 cadi dying for no apparent reason. I am not sure if it is related, but the car is making a strange noise that I describe as a howling or hooting. It ranges from a quiet high hum to a howl or hoot like a loud owl. Also, I have noticed that the sounds pitch increases when coming to a stop and will follow the rythym of the blinker (woo ooh woo ooh woo ooh.) While idling at a stop and then return to a more steady hum once my foot leaves the brake pedal and the blinker disengages. I should also mention that this noise has become more common, as it was previously only audible when the tank was around a quarter full and would subside upon filling the tank. Now it makes the noise regardless of the tank being full or empty. Does it seem funny that noise would follow along to the beat of the blinker? Also, the sound (when standing outside of the car) seems to be coming from under the rear driver's side door, but can be heard inside or out. The problem with engine quitting seems to be more common on extremely hot (around 100 degrees) days. I am in a new town-state and I do not know any mechanics here (only some handy family members who may be able to help if we can troubleshoot the problem). I would like to know a little about what I'm up against before I take it in, just to cover my rear. I have a repair manual. My brother checked the pressure in the fuel lines and said the pressure was good. Can the pressure be good even if the fuel pump is going out? We have tossed around the idea of the ICM causing the quitting problem, but it doesn't seem to explain the sound. No codes on the OBD is not helping. Would there be a code if the pump was going out? It has quit while cruising along, cornering, banking, as well as when pulling to a stop.
One very hot day,
1. It idled about a half hour (with A/C on)
2. Then I drove about ten minutes,
3. Shut it off for about 2 minute,
4. Started it back up,
5. Drove for about 5 minutes at speeds no greater than 40mph
7. Would run for about 5 minutes and quit
8. Repeated this several times until I made it to the hwy (turned off the A/C) and once driving steadily 65 mph made it home 100 miles away with no more trouble. Strange.
I would really appreciate some help and ideas on this.
Thanks a lot. Cyndi
The hooting comming from the rear may require someone listen at the gas tank with the cap off, can it be heard at that spot? If not could be transfered noise from some other point. But Cadillac's partial answer is fuel volitility, try a better brand of gas for several tanks, here's the bulliten on the problem.
EFFECT OF FUEL VOLATILITY (DRIVEABILITY CONDITIONS) TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN Reference Number(s): 11-92-31, 24-91-28, 92-6E-23, 93-I-9 Related Ref Number(s): 11-92-31, 24-91-28, 92-6E-23, 93-I-9 ARTICLE BEGINNING INFORMATION ON THE EFFECT OF FUEL VOLATILITY (DRIVEABILITY CONDITION) Model(s): 1993 & Prior GM Models Section: Fuel Bulletin No: Buick 92-6E-23 Cadillac 93-I-9 Pontiac 24-91-28 Oldsmobile 11-92-31 Date: November 30, 1992 BACKGROUND INFORMATION Recent changes in EPA regulations have effectively lowered the maximum allowable fuel volatility. Volatility, which can be defined as a gasoline's ability to change from a liquid to a vapor, directly affects the amount of evaporative emissions produced by the fuel. Lower volatility means that less unburned hydrocarbons will be released into the atmosphere during fuel storage and transfer. Unfortunately, reducing fuel volatility can cause problems during cold engine operation when low temperatures limit the fuel's ability to vaporize and burn. Two terms are often used to describe volatility characteristics. These ARE: DISTILLATION CURVE The distillation curve is a graph showing the relationship between temperature and the percentage of fuel evaporated. The fuel components that boil at relatively low temperatures (below about 90 degrees F) are known as the " light ends" and are essential for good cold engine performance. The " heavy ends", which begin to boil at about 300 degrees F, contain the most energy but are more difficult to burn. Laboratory analysis is usually required to determine the distillation curve of a gasoline sample. REID VAPOR PRESSURE (RVP) NOTE: This bulletin is revised to include the 1993 model year and to add a CUSTOMER LETTER. Page 1 of 4 EFFECT OF FUEL VOLATILITY (DRIVEABILITY CONDITIONS) -1992 Cadillac De. RVP is the pressure (PSI) that vaporized fuel exerts within a sealed container as it is heated to 100 degrees F. The higher the RVP the higher the fuel volatility. While RVP is readily tested in the field, fuels of the same RVP can have different distillation curves and cold driveability characteristics. Fuel volatility WILL VARY depending on geographic location and time of year (fuel intended to be used in higher ambient conditions is formulated with less volatility). This can make cold driveability as a big problem during summer months as during the winter. There may be additional variation in the volatility characteristics of pump gasoline caused by the differences in fuel manufacturers, blends, and storage times. As EPA fuel volatility standards are lowered, variations between fuels (which may further reduce volatility) become critical factors influencing cold engine performance. No matter how thoroughly the relationship between fuel quality and cold driveability is understood, eliminating fuel quality as an issue can be difficult because: Tools which test fuel volatility measure only RVP, not the distillation curve. Ã The distillation curve has a greater effect on cold driveability than RVP. The customer may perceive raising the fuel quality issue as an attempt to evade his problem. Ã This may cause difficulty in getting accurate fuel usage information. Water and other types of fuel contamination may cause continued driveability complaints. Ã The problem symptoms may remain even though the vehicle has been refueled several times with a quality gasoline. CUSTOMER CONCERNS CONDITION Poor cold engine operation symptoms may include - hard start/extended crank, stalling, backfiring, hesitation, rough idle, detonation, and/or lack of power. POSSIBLE CAUSE Low volatility fuel will not vaporize sufficiently to allow normal combustion. CORRECTION Replace fuel. DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE 1. Perform basic system checks in section 6E of the Service Information Manual. 2. Check for service bulletins which relate to cold driveability issues specific to the problem vehicle. Ã An updated engine control calibration or service procedure may be available to make the engine less susceptible to low volatility fuels. 3. If basic checks DO NOT reveal a vehicle fault, then advise the customer that fuel quality may be an issue. Recommend the following actions: Ã Change brands of fuel. Ã Use 87 octane gasoline, unless the vehicle is designed for premium gasoline. Ã Try to empty the fuel tank as much as practical before refilling. Ã Run a minimum of three tanks of new fuel before returning for service. 4. If above steps are ineffective, DO NOT proceed with additional vehicle diagnosis and/or parts replacement until the fuel tank has been drained and refilled with a known good quality gasoline at the dealership. 5. If the problem remains, refer to Service Information Manual, Service Bulletins, and/or Technical Assistance System. REFERENCE INFORMATION Additional information regarding fuel and its effect on engine driveability can be found in the following booklets and their companion video tapes. Oldsmobile Service Alert (92-3): Today's fuel and its effect on driveability. Buick Know-How (KH-139): Driveability Diagnosis: Fuels The following explains, in basic terms, the effects of different fuels. It may be copied and distributed to owners you feel may have a problem with fuel. CUSTOMER LETTER Dear Cadillac Owner: As with many other things you put in your vehicle, the fuel you use affects the way your vehicle operates. You may have noticed that your engine runs differently for a while after filling up at a gas station you do not normally use. Unfortunately, the fuel you use can even cause problems such as hard starting, stalling, back- firing, hesitation, rough idle, lack of power, or spark knock. Although fuel may look the same everywhere, all fuels are not the same. Fuels are blended differently based on the time of year the fuel is blended, by whom, and in what part of the country. Even after the fuel is blended, it can change based on where and how long it is stored. Also, the environmental protection agency recently changed the guidelines used to blend fuels. All of these factors affect fuel properties which in turn affect the way your vehicle performs. Consequently, if you bring your vehicle in with a driveability concern like one of those listed above, your dealer may replace the fuel in your tank or ask you to change the gas station you use for a period of time to determine if the fuel you are getting is the cause of the condition. If your dealer mentions fuel is the cause of a concern or suggests switching gas stations to see if fuel is the cause, please follow their instructions. Your dealer is best equipped to determine whether or not fuel is the cause of the condition. Page 3 of 4 EFFECT OF FUEL VOLATILITY (DRIVEABILITY CONDITIONS) -1992 Cadillac De. As always, the aim of Cadillac and your Cadillac dealer is to satisfy you, the customer, with our vehicles. If you have any questions or concerns about your Cadillac, we stand ready to serve you. Cadillac Motor Car Company General Motors Corporation
There is also a revised TPS(throttle possition sensor) inspect yours, and replace if you have the old type. Ground at starter needs to be modified as well, I will email this to you because it will not copy well!
July, 16, 2009 AT 5:11 PM
I use good fuel from reputable nationwide stations, Premium grade. Yes, you can hear the noise with your ear close to the open gas cap. The answer you sent me is a report (that I have already read). I have spent many hours reading and investigating. Backfiring, engine knocking, hard starting, and rough idling were not included in the symptons I asked about. I am not having cold drivability issues. The report you sent me says nothing about the howling sound. I asked if the OBD will tell us of an issue with the fuel pump. I asked how long a fuel pump lasts. I asked if you thought it was odd that the humming mimics the blinker rhythym. I know my post was long, but I was trying to cover a lot. I will check the TPS and replace if needed. I hope you can give me some more advice.
July, 16, 2009 AT 5:22 PM
You gave me a link to a private meassage about the TPS and ground at starter. There is no message. It says my inbox is 0% full. Please try to send again.