1986 Buick Park Avenue No Spark

Tiny
FRNKLFD
  • MEMBER
  • 1986 BUICK PARK AVENUE
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 196,000 MILES
My car died on me as I was driving down the highway, it just shut off, almost like someone had reached over and turned the key off. I have replaced the the timing chain and gears, the car turns over but I have no spark, I have checked the crank and cam sensors and they have tested good, ecm test is good, coil packs and module are good, if the ESC module has failed would this be the reason I have no spark and why my car just shut off without any warning.
Do you
have the same problem?
Yes
No
Saturday, March 8th, 2008 AT 7:42 PM

14 Replies

Tiny
ED ARMES
  • MEMBER
Have you checked all of the fuses, relays and circuit breakers. There are 1 or more of these that control the computer and spark control. Also MAF sensor, MAP sensor as well as other sensors may fault out and cause the computer to shut down the ignition system. Do you have a check engine light on or have you checked for any trouble codes?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Thursday, March 13th, 2008 AT 8:24 PM
Tiny
FRNKLFD
  • MEMBER
No trouble codes where sent, all fuses are good, all voltage checks where good, all the relays have checked out good, all the sensors that would be related to this problem have checked out good. I forgot to add in my oringal post that I am not getting any fuel to the cylinders, fuel pressure is good.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, March 15th, 2008 AT 7:36 PM
Tiny
ED ARMES
  • MEMBER
First complaint stated no spark. Additional complaint stated no fuel delivery from injectors.

Fuel pressure at engine should read 40-45 psi. If not, filter could be plugged or pump bad.

Are you sure your check engine /service engine light is actually operating when you turn key on? If not then you need to be sure you checked for codes with an approved code reader.

No codes would indicate at least 2 possible scenarios. One is either the computer (ECM/PCM) has failed completely and is not delivering any codes.
The other is that what ever is causeing the problem has nothing to do directly with the computer in order to operate ie. Anything mechanical or electrically independant of computer control.

To not have spark or fuel delivery you should have at least one of the following codes:
19 Crankshaft position sensor or circuit.
33, 34 Mass Air Flow sensor or circuit.
41, 51 PROM, MEM-CAL or ECM problem.
42 Electronic Spark Timing circuit.
52, 53 CALPAK or ECM problem.
54 Fuel Pump circuit.
63, 64 Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor.

Humor me a little and try this: Spray a little carb cleaner or starting fluid into the throttle body and then see if the engine tries to fire. If it does then you have a fuel delivery problem. If it does not fire then we are back to the previous discussion.

Other than the above suggestions, the only other thing to do would be to take it to the dealer service dept. They have a way to coax hidden codes out of the system.

Give feedback and let me know what happens.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, March 15th, 2008 AT 9:07 PM
Tiny
FRNKLFD
  • MEMBER
The check engine light works, ran a code test after this had happen, the only code that came up was #12- ECM is active, fuel pump is good, regulator is good, fuel pressure is good, allready tried starting fluid, no fire.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 16th, 2008 AT 10:59 AM
Tiny
ED ARMES
  • MEMBER
Code 12 means that the computer is in diagnostic mode. This code will come up 3 times in succesion. After that any other codes stored will also come up 3 times each. Did you allow enough time for this to happen or did you stop at the 12 code? ( Some people will see this code twice and think it is the only code set since other codes did not follow the first 12 code set.)
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 16th, 2008 AT 1:38 PM
Tiny
FRNKLFD
  • MEMBER
Yes, I let it go for 3 times, no other codes followed, I made sure, I let it go more than 3 times, I have turned it over (not in test mode) to see if it would throw a code, nothing, just 12.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 16th, 2008 AT 3:25 PM
Tiny
ED ARMES
  • MEMBER
I have tried to remember in the past when I have come upon a no code no spark situation. I seem to remember about, a year ago, a 92 Park Avenue that would start cold but then would die and not start again until engine cooled again. No codes were present. No spark and no fuel. Checked everything I could think of. Finally I remembered an 85 Pontiac that was acting similar a few years earlier. When the engine got hot it would stop. I placed an ice cube on the Mass Air Flow sensor and the car started right up. I replaced the sensor and had no more problems. The circuits inside the sensor housing were getting hot and failing. The ice cooled the sensor and it went back to working.

I was not around any ice cubes with the Buick so I took a water hose and startes running it over the sensors starting with the MAF sensor. I eliminated over heated sensors one at a time cooling each seperately and trying the engine. When I came to the Crank Shaft Position sensor and cooled it, the car started right up. It may depend on how the sensor fails as to wether a code is set.

The CSP sensor communicates with the computer to determine when the crankshaft is really turning and when to start ignition and maybe the injectors to fire also.

The MAF sensor tells the computer how much air flow and sometimes incorporates the air temps also to determine how much fuel to deliver.

Both of these go through the powertrain control system. If the CSP does not give a signal that the crank is turning, the computer has no reason to request spark or fuel. If the MAF sensor does not give a signal that air is coming into the engine, the computer receives the same no command response.

Does any of this make sense to you? I put my money at this time on the crank sensor, It is not the easiest to change but is not as expensive as MAF sensor.

Mull this over a little. I can't see you checking the crank sensor since it is behind the harmonic balancer!
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 16th, 2008 AT 6:11 PM
Tiny
FRNKLFD
  • MEMBER
Yes it makes sense, I have herd about the ice cube trick before, never tried it, I'll try anything at this point. I was just talking to my neighbor and he called a friend of his who is a retired master mechanic, he builds custom cars now, I talked to him and told him my problem, to make a long story short, his money is on the crank sensor also, he told me that when this model came out the crank sensor was an on going problem and that he had changed many of them that had the same problem that I am having, he told me to check for a crank sensor signal at the ignition module connector, I told him that I already had done that and that it tested good, then he told me to check for a signal from the ignition module to the PCM and to check it with an oscilloscope, he said that when the cam and crank signal go through the module they get modified before going to the PCM and that for whatever reason something happens to the crank signal and that it causes a no spark no injector pulse problem that will not throw a trouble code because the sensor is not actualy bad, it's the modified crank signal that is bad, he said that it was a design flaw in the sensor. Does this make any sense to you?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 16th, 2008 AT 7:45 PM
Tiny
ED ARMES
  • MEMBER
I am with you 100%. You can do the test to verify
( if you have an oscilliscope available ) or you can just replace the CSP.

Keep me informed. Good luck.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 16th, 2008 AT 8:24 PM
Tiny
ED ARMES
  • MEMBER
There is a special tool need to set the correct dimension from the center line os the crankshaft to the sensor.

If you do not have this tool it is almost impossible to set this dimension.

I have an engineering degree and with the help of dial calipers I was able to calculate the dimensions necessary from measureing the distance from the crank center to the veins of the balancer and then to the slots of the CSP sensor allowing the veins to fall in the center of the slots.

If you attempt this without proper settings, the CPS will probably get ripped apart and the harmonic balancer veins that trip the sensor may be damaged also.

Check with a good parts store to see if they have this tool available. If not, check with your friend to see if he has one in his tool box.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 17th, 2008 AT 11:49 AM
Tiny
FRNKLFD
  • MEMBER
The clearance between the veins on the balancer and the slots on the crank sensor is.025 on both sides, I already have the feeler gauges, thanks for the heads up. I was going to run the test today, my brother forgot to bring the scope to work, I am not dumping another dime in this car until I am 100% sure of the problem, it doesn't pay to be a parts changer and not fix the problem if you know what I mean. I will let you know what I find out.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 17th, 2008 AT 4:17 PM
Tiny
SENTURA
  • MEMBER
I've had the same trouble with a 92 park avenue but we've already replace the cam shaft sensor. We had the dealer do it, and they can't find anything that would cause it not to spark either, we're at a loss. The car runs great when it runs.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 29th, 2010 AT 4:36 PM
Tiny
ANTHONYFRANQUI
  • MEMBER
Just had the same problem with my 1990 Buick Park Avenue Electra, the car would suddenly shut off as you were driving but would start right back up. Found out it was my crankshaft pulley was bad. I replaced that and everything has been fine since then, but before I replaced it I let it go as far as it started to make rattling noises really loud when the car was started. Come to find out if I would have waited any longer my crankshaft pulley would have came off and I may have caused more severe damage. So in regards to your stalling issue maybe check your crankshaft pulley could be going bad this will definitely make the car stall. If so you can check by pulling on the belt and if it turns then more likely your pulley is bad there should be no room to pull the belt and make it turn.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, August 7th, 2018 AT 12:38 PM
Tiny
KEN
  • ADMIN
Great addition to this thread! Please feel free to help out whenever you are on the site. :)

Cheers, Ken
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 8th, 2018 AT 11:31 AM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Recommended Guides