Engine quit, Car has 3/4's fuel, guage reads.

Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

So the scan tool wouldnt connect and read the car or you got a code saying that?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, November 19th, 2012 AT 10:39 PM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

The reader hooked up to the connector, the reading said ECM COMMICATION ERROR. Could a bad ground be the problem?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, November 19th, 2012 AT 11:13 PM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

This is what I can gather at this point. There is no spark. The fuel pump shows no life with the key in the on position (not even for a few seconds) and not even when cranking. It will pump when I jump the relay, and the pressure seems good at the valve on the fuel rail. The fuel guage is pegged empty and I know there is a half tank of gas. The injector plug has 12v on one pin, no pulsating ground on the other, The remote trunk opener does not work, it did last week. Security light goes on for a few seconds when the key is turned on, then turns off. The SERVICE ENGINE SOON light stays on all the while when the key is in the on position. There are no instrument panel illumination.
I HATE THIS CAR!

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, November 19th, 2012 AT 11:30 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

I posted the trouble tree for the no commucation with scan tool but it asks you if you can talk to the bcm because that is the gateway to the ecm. Does your buddies scan tool read the body control module on on your car?The problem I have been running into with helping you is you dont have a scan tool to see what you can talk to read codes etc.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, November 20th, 2012 AT 1:27 AM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

I'll try to buy a code reader tomorrow.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, November 20th, 2012 AT 2:50 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

If you bought a scan tool that can read the bcm etc on your car new would be over 500 used a few hundred the new ones on amazon are the otc nemsyis I have a mac task master which uses the same software.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, November 20th, 2012 AT 4:04 AM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

Bought this on Ebay for $50, should be here by the end of the week.
NEW MS509 OBD2 Scanner Code Reader Live Data Via Your PC with Data (Item # 281026898903)
I hope this will help.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, November 20th, 2012 AT 5:45 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

I doubt it reads the bcm?Which it asks in the trouble tree I posted for no com with the scan tool. Try skipping that part on the trouble tree and see what you find.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, November 20th, 2012 AT 10:19 PM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

Will do, I'll let you know when I get the reader. Probably not until after thursday.

I'd really like to keep trying to figure this out and not wait until the reader gets here. Is there any one component or condition that will cause all the symptoms this car is exhibiting? No spark, fuel pump and fuel injector issues, no instrument panel lights, inop trunk remote opener? And there might be other symptoms I haven't discovered yet.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, November 20th, 2012 AT 11:25 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

Heres the problem the dash lights trunk opener are controled by the bcm the other things you just mentioned are controled by the ecm. So its a blend between the two.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 2:05 AM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

Your last post has left me confused: "Heres the problem the dash lights trunk opener are controled by the bcm the other things you just mentioned are controled by the ecm. So its a blend between the two."

I'm wondering now if we were barking up the wrong tree with the first diagnosis? Here's why, the other things (you now say are controlled by the ECM) are the fuel pump, no spark, and the fuel gauge, so what made you suspect the BCM if the ECM is what controls the fuel, spark, etc? Could this have been a ECM problem from the get go?

Let's go back to the beginning, and I am certainly not an expert, so please correct me where I am wrong. If I recall correctly, the dash lights and the trunk control were not originally in play, both were operational before I changed the BCM, now they are not. The original problem was a no start condition, nothing to do with the dash lights or the trunk release. First symptoms were no fuel pump life, (without jumping the relay) no spark, and an erroneous fuel gauge reading. (Empty) That's all. Your first analysis was that it sounded like a BCM problem. So I installed another BCM, put it through the 'learning' procedure, and it didn't correct the problem. But now you say it is the BCM that controls the items that were working at the start of this repair, and it's the ECM that controls the fuel, and spark, not the BCM. So maybe I should have been looking at the ECM from the beginning? Is the ECM an acronym for the 'computer', and do you think I need to replace it?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 3:52 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

The fuel gauge runs thru both the bcm and the ecm the ecm is the engine control module which is really the pcm powertrain control module because the transmission computer and egine computer are combined. Put the old bcm back. In. And see if the trunk release and dash lights work?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 4:59 AM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

Already did that, and they still don't work. Maybe I screwed the BCM up by taking it in and out a few times? I did read something about avoiding "static electricity", which I did not guard against. Hopfully when I get the reader I will be better able to gather some good data.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 5:19 AM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

Where is the ECM located and should I be looking at replacing it?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 2:15 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

I have never had one of my tester bcms one I was handling or a new one damaged by static. The pcm is on the passenger side under the cowl at the base of windshield outside the car. Then under there you will find a rubber boot with 10mm nuts holding it down under there is your pcm.I wouldn't look at changing it yet. So did you try linking with the ecm with your old bcm?The hard part is you can try to talk to the bcm. Because on those cars when I cant talk to the ecm I see if I can talk to the bcm.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 6:06 PM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

I didn't ask where the PCM is, I asked where the ECM is
located, since that it the item you said controlled the fuel pump, spark, etc. And I don't know how to go about "linking with the ecm with your old bcm". As you requested I did reinstall the original BCM, if that is what is meant by "linking". Sorry for my lack of fluency in automotive speak, but I am an amateur.
Sorry, but I have no idea of what you are asking here: "The
hard part is
you can try to talk to the bcm. Because on those cars when I
cant talk to the ecm I see if I can talk to the bcm."

I did some reading and came across some info that suggests that I might have a bad crankshaft position indicator, so I just went to the auto parts store and bought one. Where is it located? I thought the (what looks like a probe) above the starter with the plastic connector plug was the CPI, but the plug is not the same as the unit I bought, so I am wondering if I am looking in the wrong place. This is a 2.2L 16 valve 4cyl.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 8:06 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

Alright heres where you got confused in a earlier post I explained how on your car your ecm/engine control module and your Tcm/transmission control module are combined into the same unit making it a pcm powertrain control module which is where I just told you it is. As far as a bad crankshaft position sensor goes thatwould only explain the spark not lack of the fuel pump working gas inop etc. Its located on the side of the engine block facing the radiator. But before you install the new one you can test old with a multi meter it should be some where around 800 ohms when they test bad they read as a open circuit. So please test it and let me know what the readings are before replacing it. Also you said you couldnt read codes data/unable to link to theengine computer with your buddies scan tool.I was asking if you tried to read codes etc with both the old bcm and the used bcm plugged in?Also I was saying makes it hard that you dont have a scan tool to try to read code's etc on the bcm. Because when you are unable to link or read data on the engine computer the first thing you do is see if you can link read data to the bcm. Hope this helps to clear up any miss understanding you had with what I said.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 8:31 PM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

ECM, TCM, PCM. Oh, I forgot BCM, this bitch sure does have a lot of M's. I'm trying to make sense of it all, it's a lot to grasp for my level of (modern) automotive diagnosis ability. And to tell you the truth I forgot what BCM was installed when we used my buddies scan tool. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, I'll be hunting in the morning, helping with dinner in the afternoon, so it looks like I'll be occupied for a while, and until my scanner arrives I'm probably just spinning my wheels. Another thing is that I work overseas and will be going away on Sunday, won't return until mid December. It looks like this window will be closed until I get back home. If I do get to work on the car before I leave I will post on this forum. Thanks for all your help, and I still hope to get it squared away when I return.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 AT 10:56 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
  • EXPERT
  • 30,989 POSTS

Lets not forgot the sdm. For the air bag lol.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Thursday, November 22nd, 2012 AT 1:08 AM
Tiny
AEROSPARES
  • MEMBER

How could I forget the SDM, my bad. I just rechecked my schedule, I'm in DC Sunday, home Monday night, leaving again Tuesday evening, then gone until mid December. If the scanner arrives before I leave, I will plug it in and let you know. If not we'll have to pick up where we left off when I get back. Think we'll get this to fly before Christmas?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Thursday, November 22nd, 2012 AT 1:52 AM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Recommended Guides