Engine quit, Car has 3/4's fuel, guage reads.

Tiny
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There should only be power to fuel pump fuse while the key is first turned to the run position plus cranking and while the engine is running. You can try the relearning again but if the security light isnt on when first turning the key to the run position then there is no way to do the relearn. See if you have spark a nice blue spark?

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Friday, November 9th, 2012 AT 12:41 AM
Tiny
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There is power to the fuse with the key in the off position. The last time I turned the key to the on position there was no security light. The light does go on at first turn of the key along with all the other indicator lights, then turns off in a few seconds. Checked for spark. Nothing.

I did get another bcm from a car that was a year newer, a 2002, should I try that? Does pulling the bcm give me another shot at relearning the computer?
Gr

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Friday, November 9th, 2012 AT 1:30 AM
Tiny
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I guess I'm stalled at this point, it's 11:30PM here and I'm sure you're finished for the day. I will be away tomorrow and unable to continue until I return home on Saturday. Don't know if you're available on the weekend, but please message anything you think I should try next. Thanks for your help, will message you when able.
All best,
gr

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Friday, November 9th, 2012 AT 4:25 AM
Tiny
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I dont know why you got the 2002 bcm like I said before has be the same year and engine to work. Unplugging the bcm will not give you another shot at relearning the pass lock sensor. How did you check for spark?Did you pop up coil cassette and have it plugged in with spark plugs in it touching the head while cranking the engine looking for spark?Also with the key in the run postion see if you have a 2 ohm or less to ground on the black wire to the ignition module and see if you have battery voltage to the pink wire to the ignition wire?

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Friday, November 9th, 2012 AT 8:06 PM
Tiny
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I'm still stumped, tried everything you suggested several times. Must be you're out for the Holiday? RSVP with any ideas when you are able.
Thanks,
gr

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Monday, November 12th, 2012 AT 6:35 PM
Tiny
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Please answer the questions I asked right above your last post?

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Monday, November 12th, 2012 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
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I did answer it several post back, but to rehash, I got both the 2001 and a 2002 just because it was there and I figured what the heck. I only installed the 2001. There is 12V on one side of the pump fuse even with the key off. I have 12v on the pink wire and under 2 ohm on the blact to the ignition module.

I also jumped between number 87 and 30 on the relay and the pump goes on.

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Monday, November 12th, 2012 AT 9:48 PM
Tiny
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I'm wondering if the security feature is my problem now? Is there any way to relearn the BCM after having done it before?
Thanks,
gr

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Tuesday, November 13th, 2012 AT 2:34 AM
Tiny
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Tuesday morning 11AM Eastern, still no progress on getting the car to start. Any hope for me to get this sorted out myself? It's looking like I'll either be towing it to GM or to the junk yard, and taking it to the dealer is likely to cost more than what the car is worth. Anything else I can try?

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Tuesday, November 13th, 2012 AT 4:11 PM
Tiny
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Heres the tough part you dont have a scan tool when can read live data on the engine and body control module. That way we can see how both those computers are working plus see what the data values are. Also its strange that you dont have power to both sides of the fuel pump fuse while cranking. Did you try swapping the relay with another one?Also try testing the crank shaft position sensor with a ohms meter its on the block facing the radiator. See what the ohms reading is?

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Tuesday, November 13th, 2012 AT 5:35 PM
Tiny
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Okay, just got back home and read your post. You haven't given up, that gives me hope! Here goes. I just checked the power at the pump fuse, got power on both sides, key off, as well as while cranking. Not sure how or why, but that is the status at this time. I've swapped the relay several times, I even have an old relay with the plastic cover removed, I can plug it in, squeeze the contact together and energize the pump. Still no fuel guage movement even while doing that. I did get the guage to read half to three quarters (correctly) at one point the other day while trying to pull the relay out. I've opened the fuze box looking for any loose wires, corrosion, nothing apparent. Next I'll check the crank position indicator ohms, as soon as I can locate it.
Thanks again,
gr

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Tuesday, November 13th, 2012 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
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I think we stumbled on something here sounds like the problem is in the fuse box where the relay is if the fuel gauge poped up while moving the relay around.I would pull the fuse box out and look at the connectors for open terminals you will see the terminal openings going into the fuse box sometimes there are open terminals that have been that way since the car was built. Then one day it starts causing issues try pushing on the fuse box while watching the fuel guage?ALso post some pics of the terminals on the harness side?Also you looked for white corroded terminals on the harness and fuse box side correct?

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Tuesday, November 13th, 2012 AT 8:08 PM
Tiny
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I opened the fuse box a couple of days ago, right after the pump and fuel gauge came to life. I thought I had found the problem, tried to start the car, and no luck. I tried dozens of times to duplicate the occurrence, but never could. I opened the box, pushed on all the wires to make sure they were going into their respective spots, nothing seemed to be amiss. There wasn't any evidence of corrosion anywhere, but I even squirted an aviation anti corrosion treatment into the sockets just to be sure. I'll open it up again and look closer to see if I missed anything. I even treated any of the grounding points that I was able to see in the engine compartment. I never worked on a Saturn before, so everything about it is unfamiliar to me. Should I still check the crank position indicator ohms? I am still wondering if the security circuit is keeping it from starting. The security light doesn't stay on after turning the key on, it illuminates for a few seconds then goes out. Not really sure if the replacement BCM is doing it's thing, seems to me that something has the ignition shut down. Never did get spark when checking for it the other day.

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Tuesday, November 13th, 2012 AT 9:05 PM
Tiny
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With no spark fuel gauge etc thats not anti theft that will only disable the fhel. Injector pulse. If you were moving around the relay and the gas gauge starting working I would be looking at the fuse box and connectors. Did you look for open terminals on the harness going to the fuse box?

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 12:08 AM
Tiny
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Checked out the box several times, can't see anything suspect. Haven't looked at the connectors on the harness, but I will do that now. I will uncouple them and look at the terminals.
Thanks,
gr

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 12:59 AM
Tiny
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Please post some pics of those connectors.

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 1:53 AM
Tiny
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Not too sure I know how to do that. I will have my son help me with that when he gets home.

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 3:05 AM
Tiny
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Sounds good.

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 3:35 AM
Tiny
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I opened the fuse box again, took a photo of the inside, and a photo of the only connector that I could unplug with a bundle of wires that go to the box. (Along the firewall) There are connectors inside the box on the left side, but on the outside there are only wrapped bundles of wire, no connectors. There might be connectors inside the top portion of the box, but I can't see how to seperate it from the lower part. I didn't want to break anything prying it apart. Now I've got to try to get the photos out of my camera and onto this website.

I attached photos, two of the fuse box, one of the only connector I could see that goes to the box. Let me know if I am missing something, because I can't find any other connectors.

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 5:01 AM
Tiny
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Well, after much head scratching I finally figured out how to take the "connectors" apart from the top of the fuse box. Duh. When you told me to look at the connectors I really didn't know what you meant, and I looked for connectors in the wiring harness going into the box. I told you that I didn't know how to seperate the top of the box from the bottom, and didn't want to pry on it and possibly break it. It took me a while but I figured it out myself, undolted the plugs and viola! Here are two photos, and everything looks okey to me. Will treat with anti corrosion and put it back together. What next?

PS Adding photos was easier than I thought it would be

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Wednesday, November 14th, 2012 AT 4:53 PM

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