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Car stalled out during driving condition. Engine turns over great. Wont start.

Tiny
SPH70TECH
  • MEMBER
  • 1992 DODGE DYNASTY
  • 100,000 MILES
I have a 1992 Dodge Dynasty 3.3l with approx 100000 miles. We have had the car for under six years and the only major issues have been trans related.
I was driving to the store last week and the car cut out while driving at about 40mph. I pulled over and could not get it to restart.
Minor low level diagnosis showed no fire from the wires to the plugs.
-- Replaced the ignition coil --
The battery was found to be insufficient
-- Replaced with a 660cca battery --
Crankshaft position sensor was suggested
-- Replaced CKP sensor --
I have shot some carb cleaner just to see if it was fuel related with no change in the start up.
The car has had a cut out issue for almost six to nine months. It has always started right back up afterwards with no issue. The cut out issue was very intermediate and never showed any serious sign to what may have been causing it.
Now I have a no start condition and a limited amount of tools and funds. I have been told it may be the ECM or the PCM or the Camshaft Position Sensor. I currently feel that this issue may be above my pay grade.

Thank you for any assistance.
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Friday, September 28th, 2012 AT 11:44 PM

10 Replies

Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
  • 48,601 POSTS
Scan for codes first and check fuses like ign underhood. If you have an automatic shutdown relay check that as well. Also some of those have poor connection at cam/crank sensors. So check those.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 12:02 AM
Tiny
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Ignition checked - coil was replaced with no change
crankshaft sensor replaced - no change
ASD relay is what I am going to track down and figure out. Hoping I see it in the junction box really quick,
i will report back on what I find later in the day.
Tnx for the input
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 4:53 PM
Tiny
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Btw, the battery was replaced after the breakdown. So I am assuming the codes if any were cleared. I have a list on procedure and the codes list just in case.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 4:54 PM
Tiny
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I was able to get back over to the car for a few minutes.

The asd relay was swapped out with the ac clutch relay.
-- turns over great --
-- no start up --
-- confirmed clicking from old asd and swapped asd relay
--

i then attempted to pull codes per the turning key ignition off/on five times and hold on position with fifth turn
-- no check engine light --
-- no blinking of check engine light --
-- nothing from instr cluster concerning check engine light --
-- confirmed other lights coming on in cluster (check gages, oil pressure, and such) I am assuming that the cluster is working as it should considering I am getting feedback from other sources through the cluster --

i removed wiring harness from pcm (located on passenger side of engine bay)
is this the pcm location for this year, make, model?
I cleaned off terms even though they showed no signs of wear and tear of any kind. I blew out harness just in case some kind of trash. I seen none. I re-installed harness to pcm(possible pcm until confirmed). I attempted to re-start engine.
-- engine turns over great --
-- confirmed asd relay clicking --
-- no start --
-- no check engine light --

kinda stumped now.
Is there a way to bypass the pcm for a start up to confirm it being bad or not. I dont have a load of tools to do some of the necessary diagnostics with the electrical system. So I would need a backwoods approach to this, lol.
I fully understand that I will not be able to drive it even if a bypass trick allows it to start up. I am just trying to get this issue in one direction.
Is there any other steps that I may try or need to do to assist you in assisting me?
Thank you for your time as I am grateful for your input.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 7:06 PM
Tiny
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No you need th pcm, butyou can disconnect a sensor to see if it starts that would put you in open loop, stil go through pcm but would let something else be wrong on a code. What engine is this? Try these two tests:

TESTÂ NS 9A Â NOÂ REFERENCEÂ SIGNALÂ DURINGÂ CRANKINGÂ (DTCÂ 11)

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMSÂ.

CAUTION: When checking for spark,  Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC) damage may occur if spark plug cable is held more than 1/4" away from a good ground.

1. Turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect distributor pick up connector. Disconnect coil wire from distributor. Hold coil wire a maximum of 1/4" away from a good ground. Turn ignition switch to ON
position. Connect a jumper wire between terminals No. 2 (Black/Light Blue wire) and 3 (Gray/Black wire) at distributor pick up connector.
2. Make and break jumper connection while checking for spark at coil wire. If a good spark does not occur,  remove jumper wire,  and go to next step. If a good spark occurs,  perform TEST NS 9BÂ.
3. Connect jumper wire between terminal No. 3 (Gray/Black wire) of distributor pick up connector and ground. While still holding coil wire a maximum of 1/4" away from a good ground,  make and break jumper
connection at terminal No. 3 and watch for spark at coil wire. If a good spark does not occur,  remove jumper wire,  and go to next step. If a good spark occurs,  repair open in Black/Light Blue wire. Perform
VERIFICATIONÂ PROCEDUREÂ VER 1Â.
4. Turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC) connector. Put DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe terminal No. 24 (Gray/Black wire) at SBEC connector. If resistance is
less than 10 ohms,  repair short to ground in Gray/Black wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  go to next step.
5. Using an external ohmmeter,  measure resistance of Gray/Black wire between terminal No. 24 at SBEC connector and terminal No. 3 at distributor pick up connector. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace
SBEC. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open in Gray/Black wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â.

TESTÂ NS 9B Â NOÂ REFERENCEÂ SIGNALÂ DURINGÂ CRANKING

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMSÂ.

1. Remove jumper wire. Place DRB II in voltmeter mode. Probe Orange wire in distributor pick up connector. If voltage is more than 7 volts,  go to next step. If voltage is less than 7 volts,  go to step 3Â.
2. Turn ignition switch to OFF position. Remove distributor cap. Crank engine while watching distributor rotor. If rotor turns,  replace distributor plate (Hall Effect pick up)? If distributor rotor does not turn,  repair
distributor drive system. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â.
3. If voltage is less than 7 volts at Orange wire in step 1),  check if voltage is zero volts. If voltage is zero volts,  go to step 5Â. If voltage is more than zero volts,  turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect Single
Board Engine Controller (SBEC) connector.
4. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Orange wire between terminal No. 7 at SBEC connector and terminal No. 1 at distributor pick up connector. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace SBEC.
Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open Orange wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â.
5. If voltage is zero volts at Orange wire in step 3),  turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect SBEC connector. Place DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe terminal No. 7 (Orange wire) of SBEC connector. If
resistance is less than 10 ohms,  repair short to ground in Orange wire. Disconnect and reconnect battery quick disconnect. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1Â. If resistance is more than 10
ohms,  go to next step.
6. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Orange wire between terminal No. 1 at distributor connector and terminal No. 7 at SBEC connector. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace SBEC. Perform
you don't have a drbIII so you will have to usea avoltohm meter. Ican't find any cam sensor specs but check against a newone ifyou can and make sure the connection is good because those have been known to fail
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 7:41 PM
Tiny
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The reply you left is chopped off in some spots. Could you re-do the procedures again plz.
Also, what sensor are you talking about that would allow the engine to catch and start up with error codes(OPEN LOOP)? I was under the impression that the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft angle sensor HAD to be plugged in or the engine would not start. Could I do this before these other steps?
Also, I do not have a ohmmeter or test light available to me at the moment. Is there a way to test these components without the test light or ohmmeter? I am willing to do all the grunt work but I am in a tight bind with money and limited with tools. I may be able to borrow some tools at a later time but my contact concerning that is out of town for a minute.
Thank you again.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 8:16 PM
Tiny
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It's not chopped off just looks like it. Where you see the 1 then period that is end of ver1 you can unplug any snesor other than crank/cam sensors. Uno the coolant or maf see if it starts. If it doesn't yo need to do those tests.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 8:22 PM
Tiny
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Just re-read the steps and noticed these steps are for a distributor. I have a 3.3l - distributor-less ignition. "Six pack" ignition coil.
I am also tracking down an ohmmeter as I am writing this. Should have one by tomm(sun 9/30) hopefully.
Let me know what steps I can take with this distributor-less ignition and I will do my best. Trying to research in the meantime.
Tnx again
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 9:08 PM
Tiny
HMAC300
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Y aknow you never gave what engine it was so I just gotit off a 2.5l see what happens when you don't give all the correct info?
TESTÂ NS 9A Â CHECKINGÂ DIRECTÂ IGNITIONÂ SYSTEMÂ (DIS)Â SIGNALÂ STATUSÂ &Â DISÂ CRANKSHAFTÂ SENSOR

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Using DRB II,  read DIS signal. If DRB II displays NO SIGNAL,  perform TEST NS 9E. If DRB II does not display NO SIGNAL,  check if DRB II displays CRANK ONLY.
2. If DRB II displays CRANK ONLY,  perform TEST NS 9C. If DRB II does not display CRANK ONLY,  turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect crankshaft sensor connector. Crankshaft sensor is
located on right side of transaxle. Turn ignition switch to ON position. Connect a jumper wire between terminals No. 2 (Black/Light Blue wire) and 3 (Gray/Black wire) of crankshaft sensor connector.
3. While making and breaking jumpered connection,  read DIS signal using DRB II. If DRB II displays CRANK ONLY,  perform TEST NS 9B. If DRB II does not display CRANK ONLY,  disconnect jumper
wire. Connect jumper wire between terminal No. 3 (Gray/Black wire) and ground.
4. While making and breaking jumpered connection,  read DIS signal using DRB II. If DRB II displays CRANK ONLY,  repair open in Black/Light Blue wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If
DRB II does not display CRANK ONLY,  disconnect jumper wire and turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC) 60 pin connector.
5. Place DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe terminal No. 24 (Gray/Black wire) at SBEC connector. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  repair short to ground in Gray/Black wire. Perform VERIFICATION
PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  go to next step.
6. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Gray/Black wire between terminal No. 24 at SBEC connector and terminal No. 3 at crankshaft sensor connector. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace
SBEC. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open Gray/Black wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.
TESTÂ NS 9C Â CHECKINGÂ DIRECTÂ IGNITIONÂ SYSTEMÂ (DIS)Â CAMSHAFTÂ SENSOR

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect camshaft sensor connector. Connector is located behind thermostat housing. Turn ignition switch to ON position. Connect jumper wire between DIS camshaft
sensor connector terminals No. 2 and 3 (Black/Light Blue and Tan/Yellow wires). While making and breaking jumpered connection,  read DIS signal using DRB II. Perform TEST NS 9D if DRB II displays
CAMÂ ONLY.
2. If DRB II does not display CAM ONLY,  disconnect jumper wire. Connect jumper wire between terminal No. 3 (Tan/Yellow wire) at camshaft sensor connector and ground. While making and breaking
jumpered connection,  read DIS signal using DRB II.
3. If DRB II displays CAM ONLY,  repair open in Black/Light Blue wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If DRB II does not display CAM ONLY,  turn ignition switch to OFF position.
Disconnect Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC) connector. Place DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe SBEC connector terminal No. 44 (Tan/Yellow wire).
4. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  repair short to ground in Tan/Yellow wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  go to next step.
5. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Tan/Yellow wire between terminals No. 44 at SBEC connector and No. 3 at camshaft sensor connector. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace SBEC? If
resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open Tan/Yellow wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.

TESTÂ NS 9D Â CHECKINGÂ DIRECTÂ IGNITIONÂ SYSTEMÂ (DIS)Â CAMSHAFTÂ SENSOR

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Place DRB II in voltmeter mode. Probe terminal No. 1 (Orange wire) at camshaft sensor connector. If voltage is more than 7 volts,  replace camshaft sensor. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.
2. If voltage is less than 7 volts,  turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC) 60 pin connector. Place DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe terminal No. 7 (Orange wire) at
SBECÂ connector.
3. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  repair short to ground in Orange wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  go to next step.
4. Using external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Orange wire between camshaft sensor connector terminal No. 1 and SBEC connector terminal No. 7. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace SBEC? If resistance is
more than 10 ohms,  repair open Orange wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.
TESTÂ NS 9E Â CHECKINGÂ DIRECTÂ IGNITIONÂ SYSTEMÂ (DIS)Â CAMSHAFTÂ &Â CRANKSHAFTÂ SENSORÂ CIRCUIT

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect camshaft sensor connector. Connector is located behind thermostat housing. Turn ignition switch to ON position. Place DRB II in voltmeter mode. Probe terminal
No. 1 (Orange wire) of camshaft sensor connector.
2. If voltage is less than 7 volts,  perform TEST NS 9F. If voltage is more than 7 volts,  turn ignition switch to OFF position. Place DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe terminal No. 2 (Black/Light Blue wire) at
camshaft sensor connector.
3. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open in Black/Light Blue wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  reconnect camshaft sensor connector. Disconnect
crankshaft sensor connector. Crankshaft sensor is located at right side of transaxle. Turn ignition switch to ON position. Place DRB II in voltmeter mode. Probe crankshaft sensor connector terminal No. 1
(Orange wire).
4. If voltage is more than 7 volts,  replace Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC). Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If voltage is less than 7 volts,  replace camshaft sensor. Perform
VERIFICATIONÂ PROCEDUREÂ VER 1.
TESTÂ NS 9F Â CHECKINGÂ DIRECTÂ IGNITIONÂ SYSTEMÂ (DIS)Â CAMSHAFTÂ &Â CRANKSHAFTÂ SENSORÂ CIRCUIT

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Disconnect crankshaft sensor connector. Crankshaft sensor is located at right side of transaxle. Probe terminal No. 1 (Orange wire) at crankshaft sensor connector. If voltage is more than 7 volts,  replace
crankshaft sensor. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.
2. If voltage is less than 7 volts,  disconnect distance sensor connector. Connector is located at right rear of engine. Probe terminal No. 1 (Orange wire) of crankshaft sensor connector. If voltage is more than 7 volts,
replace distance sensor. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If voltage is less than 7 volts,  go to next step.
3. Turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect Single Board Engine Connector (SBEC) connector. Place DRB II in ohmmeter mode. Probe SBEC connector terminal No. 7 (Orange wire). If resistance is less
than 7 ohms,  repair short to ground in Orange wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  go to next step.
4. Using external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Orange wire between camshaft sensor connector terminal No. 1 and SBEC connector terminal No. 7. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace SBEC? If resistance is
more than 10 ohms,  repair open Orange wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.
TESTÂ NS 10A Â AUTOÂ SHUTDOWNÂ (ASD)Â RELAYÂ CONTROLÂ CIRCUITÂ (DTCÂ 42)

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Turn ignition switch to ON position. Disconnect ASD relay connector. Place DRB II in voltmeter mode. Probe terminal "A" (Dark Blue wire) at ASD relay connector. If voltage is less than 10 volts,  repair open in
Dark Blue wire from ignition switch. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If voltage is more than 10 volts,  go to next step.
2. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance between terminals "A" and "C" at ASD relay. If resistance is more than 100 ohms,  replace ASD relay. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If
resistance is less than 100 ohms,  turn ignition switch to OFF position.
3. Disconnect Single Board Engine Controller (SBEC) 60 pin connector. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance of Dark Blue/Yellow wire between terminal No. 51 of SBEC connector and terminal "C" of
ASD relay connector.
4. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  replace SBEC. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open in Dark Blue/Yellow wire. Perform VERIFICATION
PROCEDUREÂ VER 1.

TESTÂ NS 11A Â AUTOÂ SHUTDOWNÂ (ASD)Â RELAYÂ CONTROLÂ CIRCUITÂ (DTCÂ 42)

NOTE: For connector terminal identification,  see CONNECTOR IDENTIFICATIONÂ. For appropriate wiring diagram,  see WIRING DIAGRAMS at end of article.

1. Disconnect ASD relay connector. Turn ignition switch to ON position. Place DRB II in voltmeter mode. Probe ASD relay connector terminal "B" (Red/White wire). If voltage is less than 10 volts,  repair open
Red/White wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If voltage is more than 10 volts,  probe ASD relay connector terminal "A" (Dark Blue wire).
2. If voltage is less than 10 volts,  repair open in Dark Blue wire. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1. If voltage is more than 10 volts,  turn ignition switch to OFF position. Disconnect Single Board
Engine Controller (SBEC) 60 pin connector.
3. Using an external ohmmeter,  check resistance at Dark Green/Orange wire between terminal No. 57 of SBEC connector and terminal "D" of ASD relay connector. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open in
Dark Green/Orange wire between ASD relay and SBEC connector. Perform VERIFICATION PROCEDURE VER 1.
4. If resistance is less than 10 ohms,  check resistance in Dark Blue/Yellow wire between terminal No. 51 of SBEC connector and terminal "C" of ASD connector. If resistance is more than 10 ohms,  repair open
after you check all this I have no other things to offer as an answer.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 10:41 PM
Tiny
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"ya know you never gave what engine it was so I just got it off a 2.5l see what happens when you don't give all the correct info?"

lol, original post in first sentence was "I have a 1992 Dodge Dynasty 3.3l with approx 100000 miles."

i understand that many people may not include info that is pertinent. I have dealt with that time and time again since I am in the IT field as of late. But be fair brother, don't accuse someone of something before you back up your own statements.

In any respect, I do appreciate that time you have put forth and I am very grateful for that. I will attempt to run some of those diagnostics you have provided. I will let you know of any outcome if you wish. If not, I will consider this thread closed unless someone else picks it up sometime in the near future.

Again, thank you for your time and valuable feedback.
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Saturday, September 29th, 2012 AT 10:58 PM

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