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Crank no start

Tiny
JOHNK59
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
What I don't understand is, I jumpered the 30 and 87 sockets on the relay socket ( I'm not sure what E points this corresponds to)and got B+ at the coil and injectors and still no spark at the plugs. What conditions cause the ASD to turn off?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BMICELI74
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
I found that earlier. I have checked everything but compression. Because the camshafts are not turning. In my model car should the camshaft be turning when the crank turns?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
That means the PCM is not grounding the circuit for the ASD relay.
You mentioned substituting with a known good PCM, maybe you should retry again.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MECHANIC
  • 75,992 POSTS
Wow-if the camshaft is not turning-you won't go nowhere-best check the timing belt/chain
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
ASD relay should not turn off as long as the PCM is being powered.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BMICELI74
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Ok in the process of checking and changing the timing belt. Few questions.

As far as jacking up the engine I read on a site how to do this, but could you offer me some advice on how this should be done?

Also is there a way I can check to see if the timing belt is lined up right without putting the whole car back together?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
MADMAX728
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
  • 2.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • TURBO
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 140,000 MILES
Over the past 3 weeks I have been having an issue with my 2003 PT Cruiser GT. I will drive it to work, park in the parking lot, then 9 hours later the battery will be completely dead, (no power, no lights, power locks don't work, nothing at all.) I get a jump and the car starts right up and I'm on my way.

I know the first thing that you'll say is that your battery is bad. I thought this too an since the battery was 4 years old I bought a new one, but again the very next day, the exact same thing happened. So we have a brand new battery and the same issue is occurring. Here are some other notable things.

I live 15 minutes from work after jumping the car, driving it home and letting it sit in the garage over night (12+ hours) the car will start fine in the next morning. I'll drive it to work and then less than 8 hours later the battery is dead.

I have checked and cleaned the battery terminals, and checked the ground straps to make sure they were in good order.

When charged the battery holds a standard 12.4v charge, with the engine running it takes 13.6v from the alternator (so I know that the alternator is not bad). After sitting in the lot for 6 hours the battery is drained down to less than 7v after 9 hours (when I am ready to go home) its less than 2v.

I am not leaving any lights, wipers, radio, or any other electrical loads on while the car is parked. I have NO aftermarket electronics installed (No alarm, remote start, etc) which could account for the problem.

Another interesting and puzzling thing is I can drive the car home park it in the garage and let it sit for 3 or 4 days and it will start right up, but when I drive it to work and let it sit for 6 to 9 hours the battery dies.

The only other thing that I can think of that has recently changed is the temperature, lately (here in Illinois) we have been getting temperatures in the mid to upper 80's and when I am at work the car is in an open lot. Don't know that it makes a difference but it seems that the issues started occurring when the temperature started getting warmer.

Other than this issue I don't have any other problems with the car everything else works fine for an 11 year old car. Well everything else except the A/C but its a Chrysler so your lucky if the AC lasts past 4 years.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
I am reasonably sure that there is a sensor which is setting a shutdown command for the relay, or possibly an open in a circuit. It's not helpful that the PCM doesn't light the MIL or set a code for the scanner to read. Do you know of a definitive list of what causes a shutdown to the ASD? The PCM was pirated from a friend of a friends car (under the radar) and is really not accessible.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MECHANIC
  • 75,992 POSTS
Never done it-refer to owners manual
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,244 POSTS
Something is putting a drain on the battery, but I can't say why it is only at work. Do this test and let me know what you find.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-dead-overnight
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
See if the following test is of any help.

SSD RELAY CONTROL CIRCUIT

Monitored & Set Conditions

Circuit is monitored with ignition on. Battery voltage above 10 volts. DTC will set if an open or shorted condition is detected in the ASD relay control circuit. This is a one trip fault.

Possible Causes

ASD Operation

(A14) Fused B+ Circuit

ASD Relay Resistance

(K51) ASD Relay Control Circuit Open

(K51) ASD Relay Control Circuit Short To Ground

PCM

Testing

1. Ignition on, engine not running. With the DRBIII(R) scan tool, actuate the ASD Relay. Is the ASD relay operating? If yes, see
INTERMITTENT CONDITION under SELF-DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM. If no, go to next step.

2. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the Power Distribution Center (PDC). Ignition on, engine not running. Measure the voltage of the (A14) fused B+ circuits in the PDC. Is the voltage above 11.0 volts? If yes, go to next step. If no, repair the (A14) fused B+ circuit. Check and replace any open fuses.

3. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the PDC. Measure the resistance of the ASD relay between the fused B+ terminal and the ASD relay control terminal. Is the resistance between 60-80 ohms? If yes, go to next step. If no, replace the ASD relay.

In testing procedures Alpha/Numeric character in patientness i.E. (K4) designates circuit. After each repair procedure has been completed, reconnect all components. Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER-5 under VERIFICATION TESTS to ensure system is functioning properly.

CAUTION:
Do not probe the PCM harness connectors. Probing the PCM harness connectors will damage the PCM terminals resulting in poor terminal to pin connection. Install Miller Special Tool (8815) to perform diagnosis.

4. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the PDC. Disconnect the PCM harness connectors. Measure the resistance of the (K51) ASD control circuit from the PDC to the appropriate terminal of Miller Special Tool (8815). Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms? If yes, go to next step. If no, repair the open in the (K51) ASD relay control circuit.

5. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the PDC. Measure the resistance between ground and the (K51) ASD relay control circuit in the PDC. Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms? If yes, repair the short to ground in the (K51) ASD relay control circuit. If no, go to next step.

6. Before continuing disconnect the PCM harness connectors and check the related wiring terminals for corrosion, damage or terminal push out. Repair as necessary. Pay particular attention to all power and ground circuits. If there are no possible causes remaining, replace and program the PCM. See PROGRAMMING.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
I could rule the world if I could get my hands on a DRBIII or a Miller 8815. I've never seen a circuit with so little information available. I'm just going to tell this lady to bite the bullet and go the stealership.

Thanks for the help.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
It is true that information on this is limited and diagnosis is never going to be easy.

Have you tried those steps that do not require the special equipments?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
I've done everything possible without the wonder tools. I've plugged in an actron 9185 that is supposed to monitor in real time, and it says it can't communicate with the vehicle. I've tested the new position sensors, done point to point continuity on the wiring harness, and cleaned every electrical contact under the hood. Whatever it is, is beyond me.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
I did some additional research and came up with the following.

Chrysler also uses an Auto Shutdown Relay (ASD). The ASD relay routes battery power to the ignition coils, and is energized by the PCM as long as receives signals from both the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors. If the engine stops turning (stalls), the PCM deengerizes the ASD relay and shuts down the ignition system. The ASD relay also supplies battery voltage to the fuel injectors, so when it shuts down it cuts off both ignition and fuel. At the same time, the PCM also deenergizes the fuel pump relay to turn off the fuel pump. For "limp in" capability, the Chrysler system can run with input from the crankshaft position sensor only. The ASD and fuel pump relays are both located in the Power Distribution Center.

I had a feeling it had something to do with the crankshaft position sensor and though the sensor replaced is new, it could be faulty as well. Have the circuit ret5ested. If circuit is good, recheck the CMP circuit as well.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
Update 1/3/12. This car has been sitting in my driveway for 5 mos, waiting for the fairies to fix it. Didn't happen, and the owner came up with some cash and towed it to the stealership. The timing belt had stripped 10 or so inches of teeth and slipped timing. The cams stayed in time, and no valve damage occurred. I replaced the timing belt (what fun!) And reassembled and hit the key. No start. I know as of August all the circuits were intact (continuity). Anybody have any ideas?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
After sitting for so long, you would have to go back through the basics again.

Have the compression checked. An idle engine can lose compression when rings dry up.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LIVERBOY
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I don't know if you have an anti-theft relay but on my 1998 sebring, that is what was causing the no spark. You might want to see if thats it.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LYNN HATINGMYLIFE DOOLITTLE
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 105,000 MILES
My transmission light came on one day and I went out to start my car the next day and all the lights came on but it would not do anything else. It gave me code P0700.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
I drained the fuel tank, as I figured that 5 months of corn likker sitting in the tank was not a good thing. 5 gallons of gas with no ethanol, and a dose of Chevron Techron, and it fired up with a bit of cranking. Purrs like a 201,000 mile kitten.

Thanks to everyone for their interest and assistance.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)

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