Replaced starter with re-manufactured starters that does not sound right

There's two things that can cause the noise you described. The first is when the replacement starter isn't spaced correctly. That used to be a common problem on larger GM cars and trucks, and was always corrected right away, in the shop, by adding one or two shims that were included with the starter. The starter design used on your car doesn't need that type of adjustment and in fact, there is no adjustment built in.

The more common problem has to do with the splash shield typically used in the front of automatic transmissions. Corners on it often get bent, then the starter's drive gear scrapes on it when it pops out to engage the engine. That noise is indeed quite irritating and noticeable, but it doesn't cause other damage. That should have been noticed when the first starter was installed, and that is the mechanic who should have corrected it. The advantage to having this done at a franchise shop is usually their counterparts in other cities will take care of warranty work. You have to go back right away, otherwise they could legitimately assume the noise started weeks or months later and is not related to their work.

As for the rebuilt starter, this is what we refer to as "unreasonable expectations", but it has more to do with poor communication, something we are guilty of in this profession. You will never get a brand new starter except on rare occasions when the car is still under warranty. That means the manufacturer is supplying it and paying for it. As with generators, rack and pinion steering gears, and some other parts, a new starter would typically cost around $800.00 to over $1000.00.

When the starter is replaced, your old one was sent back through the parts store where the replacement came from, then back to the rebuilding company, as a "core". What you got was someone else's core that was rebuilt, then sold as such, for a fraction of the cost of a new starter.

Cores are tested first to determine what failed, then they're disassembled and all the parts that will be reused are cleaned up to look like new. That always includes the housing, the magnets or stationary coils of wire, and the rotating armature. Those parts also get replaced if they are damaged in any way, but 99 percent of the time they are reused. All the common wear parts are replaced, along with any other parts that prior testing showed to be defective. They also replace any parts that have a well-known history of failure, with improved parts, so in a lot of ways, a rebuilt starter will be more reliable than the original one was. That means the rebuilt starter is likely to be the highest-quality starter you can get. A brand new original equipment starter from the dealer will have all the same design shortcomings as the one that was removed from your car, so you're not gaining anything. The lowest quality product would be a used starter from a salvage yard, but even those can perform perfectly fine. After all, it was working okay when the car showed up at the yard.

The communication problem is part of what led up to your dissatisfaction. To anyone in the automotive field, the use of rebuilt parts is common knowledge and an industry-accepted practice, but that isn't always obvious to the car owners. The repair shop installed the standard part as expected, but no one bothered to make sure you were aware of that.

As a point of interest, we used to run into that with tvs too. A new picture tube would cost way more than the tv did when it was new, and the only way we got them was if the original one failed under warranty. Standard practice was to install a rebuilt picture tube, then send the old one back to be rebuilt for someone else. In over 35 years as a tv repairman, I only ran into two picture tubes being replaced with new ones, and both of those old ones were broken in shipping. To be considered "new", the tv could not be legally sold with a rebuilt part; it had to be a new part.

To revisit the design issue, GM had a 100 percent failure rate of their rack and pinion steering gear assemblies in the late '80s to early '90s. It was caused by wear taking place to the soft aluminum housing that allowed power steering fluid to bypass some internal seals. That resulted in loss of power steering assist when the engine was still cold. Their repair was designed to get the cars past the 50,000-mile warranty, then, when the problem occurred again, it was up to the owner to pay for the proper repair. That was to install a steering gear that had a stainless steel liner pressed in by the aftermarket rebuilding company. With those aftermarket parts, failures were just about unheard of. That is the perfect example of why a quality rebuilt part is far superior to a new one. The new one from the dealer would have been built with the same design flaw as your original one was.

The bottom line is I'm satisfied with the replacement starter they installed, but not with the noise. If it is going to be a long time before you return home, or before you can leave the car for a day, have someone at another Firestone shop document on the repair order the noise that resulted from their work. That is proof they are responsible for correcting the problem, even when it is at a later time. Be aware though, the original shop should be willing to get the car back in right away, but you can't expect that of some other shop that didn't cause the problem. They will already be booked up with appointments, and they may not have anyone free to get to your car right away. I would be quite pleased if they just agreed to get it in as soon as possible.

I'm pretty confident the starter is not the issue. When one is rebuilt, it gets a series of tests, and no rebuilder would let one go making an abnormal noise. And your chance of getting two like that from two different cities is even more unlikely.

These rebuilt starters you're getting are Nissan starters that failed on someone else's car, got returned to a rebuilder, then sent out to the auto parts stores. Most new-car dealers buy their starters from the same rebuilder companies; you're just paying more for the same thing. You can request a brand new Nissan starter, but as I mentioned, it will cost a lot more. Depending on how long ago that starter was manufactured, it could have the same design shortcomings, or the same lowest-cost parts they could find that would do the job, as your original starter had.

Your car is 20 years old, and parts like starters are often the same for many years, so it is likely your starter part number was used for another ten or 15 years. In that time, when a manufacturer learns of a high-failure part, or some common repair history, in the name of quality, they will redesign some aspect of the part, or use a stronger part or one less prone to wear. That is a potential reason a new starter from the dealer could be better than your original one. On the flip side, when a manufacturer identifies a troublesome part and develops an improvement, that improvement will find its way to the rebuilder companies too, then that improved part will become part of their standard rebuilding process.

To say that a different way, a rebuilt starter or a new one from the dealer could both be better than what came off your car. My concern now is what is the dealer going to blame if the noise is still there?

To add another dimension to this sad story, back in the '70s, my friends and I loved the old Chrysler products. Chrysler was the world's leader in developing innovations that benefited car owners like us. One of them was their starter design that for many years could be modified for use on GM race engines because Chrysler's were the only ones strong enough to start those engines. Their popular design first showed up in 1960, then, by around 1968, they looked the same and interchanged the same through all the years, but the internal parts were completely different. Then they were resigned again a few times through the late '80s. Any starter from any year could be used on any year car, but if you wanted to repair one yourself, as we always did, you had to buy the correct set of parts for the individual starter. Each design change resulted in improved reliability, improved ease of service, more resistance to the effects of engine heat, or reduced weight. If you were to buy a brand new starter from the dealer's parts department, you could get one that was manufactured in 1989 to the latest and most-improved design, or you might get one that was built in 1972 and has been sitting on the shelf for many years, with an inch of dust on the box.

In the case of Chrysler, and most other manufacturers, when a part gets a major redesign, it gets a new part number. This is why when looking up parts on an auto parts store"s web site, or even in their parts books on the counter, they will list multiple part numbers this new one will replace and work in place of. When only a small change is made, such as switching to a stronger bolt, or adding some metal to a weak spot in the housing, they will only change the suffix of the part number. For example, radios I work on might have a part number of 5265418AA, and the next one will be 5265418AB. Those are the same radio and they fit the same applications, but by the time the one ending with "AB" came down the assembly line, a minor, but significant change was made to the design. In one example I'm aware of, one small component was changed to replace one that was susceptible to changes in temperature, and it resulted in the stations drifting a little over time. That one part was responsible for improved customer satisfaction, but it didn't warrant a whole new part number for that radio. Every letter higher in the suffix denotes a change was made compared to the ones with the previous letters.

Getting back to the reason I brought up the Chrysler starter story, those were real easy to replace when the car was up on a hoist, but it could be a miserable job when laying on the ground. There was a sheet metal plate on the front of the transmission with a hole in it for the starter to sit in. When struggling on the ground and removing the starter, it was real easy to let it hang by its own weight, and bend a small area around that hole. You couldn't see that damage by eye, but once reinstalled, the starter made that same screeching noise you're experiencing. Most of the time we were putting the original starter back in that we had just taken out, so you know the starter wasn't the cause of that noise. At times this became frustrating because we had to take the starter back out, try to find the bent spot in the sheet metal plate, bend it back straight, then stuff the starter back in. Once we went through all that work, about half of the time the noise was still there, and we had to start all over.

Today I'd like to think I'm smarter, but I still like to repair an old starter instead of buying a rebuilt one. Instead of crawling around on the ground, I pedal to my friend's shop and use his hoist.

Since I am rather confident the starter is not causing the noise, and since it is starting your engine just fine, I would request the next mechanic to repair, straighten, or replace the splash shield. On most cars, that shield is fairly easy to remove as a temporary test to prove that is what's causing the noise. Most of the time, with it on the workbench, you can see the shiny or ground-down area where the rubbing was occurring. If bending it back to proper shape is too difficult, the offending area can be ground or cut away without causing any other problems. The shield is there to keep fingers and rocks out. They shouldn't have to replace the starter again unless that would make you feel better.

Regardless of how this is handled, please keep us updated on your progress and on what the final solution involves.

I'll be waiting to hear back.

Yup. If the drive gear is rubbing on the splash shield when it pops out to engage, that sheet metal shield is going to wear away, then the noise will be reduced or go away. We could be talking about eighths of an inch or even less, which is quite insignificant.

The flywheel isn't the issue. That is spinning any time the engine is running, so you'd hear the noise all the time. Since the noise is only there during cranking, it has to be the starter's drive gear that is involved, and that only extends out to the teeth on the outer edge of the flywheel when you're starting the engine. Once the engine has started running, that drive gear retracts, and presumably retracts away from what it is rubbing on.

Drive it. Many years ago this was more common, and we just kept on driving, especially if remedial repairs involved crawling around on the ground under the car.

Hi,

Thanks for letting us know. Please feel free to come back anytime in the future if you have questions.

Take care,

Joe