1989 Cutlass Ciera Stalling problem

Tiny
KATTATONIK916
  • MEMBER
  • 1989 OLDSMOBILE
Car: 1989 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.3L 81,000 miles

Problem: Went to work one day car ran great go to leave the car has a hard time starting then just dies It throws a CEL and the TEMP light. I left it over night, came back to pull it in the shop. Runs fine. Change the fuel filter, same problem. Let it sit for 15 min starts alittle hard then runs great. Warmed it up to temp took it down the parking lot full throttle to complete stop fine. Come back an hour later wont start turns over wont start. I changed the spark plugs and wires. Still wont run and throws a Check Engine Light and temp light. I have spark at the coil packs, spark at the spark plugs, fuel pressure to the fuel rail and fuel to the spark plugs. Its almost as if the timing is off. Shes wants to start and if you feather the gas it will run VERY rough and blow black smoke out. WHAT IS WRONG?

Questions : What could it be and can I retrieve the CEL like the old GMs by using a jumper in the diag plug?
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Thursday, March 2nd, 2006 AT 11:38 PM

5 Replies

Tiny
MVANNESSJR
  • MEMBER
Insert a paper clip in Terminal A and B of the ALDL Diagnostic Terminal (Located Below the Drivers Side Dash). These are side by side top right. Pins are as follows on most of them.

[code:1:a2673845b1]
F E D C B A
G H M
[/code:1:a2673845b1]

The system will flash code 12 three times (the check engine light) consisting of one flash, pause, and then two more. Following this it will repeat every code in the computer three times. Then it will flash code 12 again after all codes have been displayed. Good luck!
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Friday, March 3rd, 2006 AT 2:12 AM
Tiny
KATTATONIK916
  • MEMBER
Thank you for your help. I got the CEL to flash. I got 2 flash pause 1 flash AND 4 flash pause 3 flash. Any clue what they are or how I may look them up short of buying a haness manuel. Thank you again.
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Friday, March 3rd, 2006 AT 8:09 AM
Tiny
MVANNESSJR
  • MEMBER
21 Throttle Position Sensor (Signal Voltage High)
43 Electronic Spark Control (ESC) Circuit

CODE 21
[code:1:56b8c92e50]
Trouble Code 21 indicates that the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is reading abnormally high. TPS volts should be close to 0.42 V at closed throttle and rise smoothly in about 0.02 volt increments to a maximum reading of about 4.85 volts at WOT.

Code 21 will set if:
Engine is running
TPS signal voltage is greater than 4.3 volts
No Code 33 or Code 34
Air Flow is less than 17 gm/sec.
All conditions met for 1.25 seconds
Typical causes for this code include:
1) Defective TPS
2) Short circuit in the TPS harness to +5 volt reference
3) Open sensor ground circuit
4) Defective ECM

NOTE: Presence of codes 33 and/or 34 may indicate that the MAP sensor is defective and is reading less than expected. This may cause the above set-conditions to be met falsely and this code to be set.
[/code:1:56b8c92e50]

CODE 43
[code:1:56b8c92e50]
Trouble Code 43 indicates that there may be a malfunction in the Electronic Spark Control (ESC) circuit. ESC is used to sense spark knock (pinging) and retard the timing to eliminate it. The knock sensor is located at the rear of the engine block. The ECM will retard the timing by as much as 20 degrees in 1 degree increments. A loss of knock sensor signal or loss of ground at the ESC module will cause the signal at the ECM to remain high. The ECM will act as if no knock is present, and may possibly result in engine damage, due to detonation.

Code 43 is set when:
Voltage at Knock Sensor is above 4.8 volts or below.64 volts.
Either condition is met for about 10 seconds.
Possible causes:
1) Open or shorted knock sensor
2) Loose knock sensor
3) Excessive mechanical noise within engine
4) Improper or incorrectly installed MEM-CAL in the ECM or defective ECM
5) Intermittent open in the EST line to the ignition module
[/code:1:56b8c92e50]
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Friday, March 3rd, 2006 AT 3:23 PM
Tiny
KATTATONIK916
  • MEMBER
The TPS is reading 4.64v close and.94v also 4.64 ohms open and 1.00 ohms open, Its the complete reverse of what everyone is telling me. Also Dose a OBD1 really have a knock sensor. Now its also throwing a code 22. Im ready to put a rag in it and just let it go LOL.
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Friday, March 3rd, 2006 AT 4:29 PM
Tiny
KATTATONIK916
  • MEMBER
When I put the neg side of the meter to the Ground terminal of the TPS plug and the positive side of the meter to the line output of the tps sensor it reads backwards of what your telling me. If I keep the positive side on the out terminal of the TPS and put the neg side of the meter to the neg battery terminal The TPS reads the way everyone is telling me it should. Its still throwing a code 21 and 43. I also pulled my IAC on the other dise of the throttle body and the plunger and stuck open and I could not sqeeze it down like my chiltons said to. Could this cause the problem?
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Friday, March 3rd, 2006 AT 9:05 PM

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