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Tiny
MAD1SON
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 DODGE INTREPID
  • 2.7L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 114,000 MILES
Only coils 2, and 3 have fire and the rest are not getting anything. We redid timing chain, oil pump and water pump, all coil packs are good. Fuses and relay. Any one run into this? I need help. Thanks
Wednesday, March 20th, 2019 AT 2:59 PM

6 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,179 POSTS
Welcome to 2CarPros

My first suspect is the crankshaft position sensor.

See Picture 1

The crankshaft sensor is located on the passengers side of the transmission housing, above the differential housing . The bottom of the sensor is positioned next to the drive plate. The sensor is a hall effect device combined with an internal magnet. It is also sensitive to steel within a certain distance from it.

Engine speed and crankshaft position are provided through the crankshaft position sensor. The sensor generates pulses that are the input sent to the power-train control module (PCM). The PCM interprets the sensor input to determine the crankshaft position. The PCM then uses this position, along with other inputs, to determine injector sequence and ignition timing.

See Picture 2

The crankshaft position sensor detects slots cut into the transmission drive-plate extension. There are 3 sets of slots. Two sets contain 4 slots and one set contains 5 slots, for a total of 13 slots. Basic timing is set by the position of the last slot in each group. Once the Power-train Control Module (PCM) senses the last slot, it determines which piston will be next at TDC from the camshaft position sensor input. It may take the PCM one engine revolution to determine crankshaft position.

The PCM uses crankshaft position reference to determine injector sequence and ignition timing. Once the PCM determines crankshaft position, it begins energizing the injectors and coils in sequence.

The PCM uses the Crankshaft Position sensor to calculate the following:
- Engine rpm
- TDC number 1 and 4
- Ignition coil synchronization
- Injector synchronization
- Camshaft-to-crankshaft misalignment timing belt skipped 1 tooth or more diagnostic trouble code)

_____________________________

Now, since only two coils are getting power, I doubt it is a timing issue because you would still have spark, just at the wrong times. If you have access to a live data scanner, check to see if there is a good continuous RPM signal. If it is sporadic, replace the crankshaft position sensor.

Here are links that shows symptoms of a bad sensor and in general how one is replaced.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/crankshaft-angle-sensor-replacement

______________________________________

Here are the directions specific to your vehicle for replacement.

REMOVAL
The crankshaft sensor is located on the passengers side of the transmission housing, above the differential housing. The bottom of the sensor sits above the drive plate.
1. Disconnect electrical connector from crankshaft position sensor.
2. Remove sensor mounting screw. Remove sensor.

INSTALLATION
The crankshaft sensor is located on the passengers side of the transmission housing, above the differential housing. The bottom of the sensor sits above the drive plate.
1. Install sensor and push sensor down until contact is made with the transmission case. While holding the sensor in this position, install and tighten the retaining bolt to 12 Nm (105 in. lbs.) torque.
2. Connect electrical connector to crankshaft position sensor.

____________________________________

Let me know if this helps. Also, when you remove the sensor, confirm nothing is damaged or corroded on the flywheel.

Take care,
Joe
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Wednesday, March 20th, 2019 AT 7:12 PM
Tiny
MAD1SON
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Okay, I will let you know what I find out after I get out of work. Thanks
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Thursday, March 21st, 2019 AT 12:41 AM
Tiny
MAD1SON
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
It’s still doing the same just getting fire on 3, and 4. Do you have any other ideas on what it might be because crankshaft sensor did not change anything?
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Thursday, March 21st, 2019 AT 8:57 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,179 POSTS
Welcome back:

If that didn't take care of it, we need to dig into the wiring itself. I have attached three pictures.

Picture 1 The highlighted wires in this pic are from the coil packs. Note 6 of them. Each one connects to the PCM. The PCM provides ground to the coil to complete the circuit.

Picture 2 The highlighted wires in this pic are the power supply to each coil. Each wire should have power at all times, but the circuits isn't completed (allowing power to fire the coil) until a ground is provided at the PCM.

Picture 3 This picture shows where the wires to the coils is spliced together at the front of the engine (Dark Green with a Lt green tracer)

First, disconnect the battery and disconnect the PCM. Once the PCM is disconnected, reconnect the battery and check for continuity at the pins in picture 1.

If you find continuity when cranking, the PCM is working.

Next, I would tell you to check the fuse that provides power, but if two of the coils are getting power, then the fuse must be good. With that in mind, check for power at the coils. You should have power when you provide a ground.

If there is no power, then you need to located the wire splice S101 and check it for corrosion or damage.

Do these things and let me know the results.

Joe
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Thursday, March 21st, 2019 AT 7:00 PM
Tiny
MAD1SON
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
I understand what you are saying, but the thing is that if I have the cam sensor plugged in I only get spark on coil packs 2, and 3 and if I unplug it I have a all 6 sparking. So I called the dodge dealership and they said that sometimes the car has to be plugged into their scanner to reprogram the car so it will know where the home position is on the cam ( if cam sensor is in the block only the 2 will spark, but if I take cam sensor out of block all 6 will fire. It has something to do with the sensor being in the block that’s why I wondered if the cam needs to be homed in?
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Friday, March 22nd, 2019 AT 12:41 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,179 POSTS
Welcome back:
Honestly, there is no relearn for the cam sensor on this engine, but anything is possible. The engine should run even if the cam sensor has failed. When the cam sensor fails, the PCM can run the engine up to 2500 RPM's without issue. Once it reaches that point, you will get a misfire because of spark and injection timing. This problem can also be the result of a jumped timing belt or a tone ring that the cam sensor uses to identify timing. However, the engine should run even without a functional cam sensor. Here is what the crankshaft position sensor does.

The PCM uses the Crankshaft Position sensor to calculate the following:
- Engine rpm
- TDC number 1 and 4
- Ignition coil synchronization
- Injector synchronization
- Camshaft-to-crankshaft misalignment timing belt skipped 1 tooth or more
diagnostic trouble code)

Regardless, maybe they know something I don't. Anything is possible anymore. What is odd is when you install the sensor, you lose spark which leads me to question if there is a short in the wiring. Will it run if you disconnect the cam sensor?

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, March 22nd, 2019 AT 8:28 PM

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