Low but hard brake pedal

Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 DODGE JOURNEY
  • 3.6L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 79,000 MILES
Vehicle listed above is an SXT model with AWD 4 wheel ABS Discs.
Having problems with a low but solid brake pedal. Low as within an inch of the floor.
no loss of fluid.
fluid looks like black coffee.
no leaks underneath.
hoses not pinched or swelling.
Put all wheels on stands service brake holds all from spinning.
E brake holds LR stopped but not RR. I spins freely.

right rear E brake suck on. Cable good but lever on caliper not returning.
Worked the lever loose with PB blaster and vice grips and OT the E brake to hold

Pedal still low. Test drive on dirt road. Service brakes would not lock right rear. ABS would not engage right rear.

Replaced both rear calipers and pads. Bled a quart of dot 3 through the system. Pedal the same, right rear wheel same on test drive.
plugged the master cylinder and had a high solid pedal. Reattached the brake lines and bled another quart of fluid thru the system. Still no luck.
No ABS or TC lights. Did a scan of the ABS anyway.
C1082 vacuum pressure sensor erratic.
C006A Multi-Axis Acceleration sensor Internal Electronic failure.
diagnostic flow charts about the same.
Connections.
Voltage.
Short.
Grounds.
Bad sensor.
Bad ABS Module.
I am going to do an ABS bleed tonight, then manual bleed, then ABS then manual then erase the codes, and another test drive. Did the ABS bleed or tried to. Right front okay right rear okay but then “evac and fill status not performed “
Tool will not proceed to the next wheel.
Help please!
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Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 AT 12:00 PM

24 Replies

Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Bled the ABS sort of. Bled right front, then right rear, got a message from the scanner evac and fill status not performed haven t found anything about this in Autel s database. A lot points to the right rear. First the frozen e brake lever on. Then the manual bleed is different. No bubbles but the fluid comes out into the tube pedal to the floor then the fluid retreats. All the rest the fluid fills the tube after a few pumps all the way to the bottom of the bottle.
Now the error message during the ABS bleed.
What am I not seeing?
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Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 AT 12:09 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Can we step back just so I understand what you did so that we don't go in the wrong direction?

Just to be clear, you unhooked all the lines from the master and blocked them off so that only the master was in play and the pedal was normal.

Then you hooked the lines back up and the pedal drops and is hard? So you eliminated it being the master as it operated normally when all the lines were off, correct?

If that is the case, then we need to hook the lines back on one at a time until we find the leg of the system that is causing this.

However, with those two codes it looks like the ABS module is the issue. So here is the testing for the C1082 as it appears to be the primary code for this issue.

If your tool is able to perform the ABS verification test after the booster sensor and circuit prove out then that will confirm the module is the issue.
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Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 AT 1:02 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Hi KASEKENNY1,

Yes, I did plug both brake line ports on the master and got a normal pedal. I put the brake lines back and did a quick bleed and was back to low and hard.
I then clamped off the brake hoses at each caliper and still had a low hard pedal.
I will plug the master ports one at a time and see if tells us anything.
Thanks for the code diagnostics.
To be honest I have a hard time understanding how vacuum comes into play here. But swapping out vacuum sensor is cheaper and easier than swapping out the ABS.
Question ABS module. Hydraulic control module or electronic control module?
Not sure about the ABS verification test, new tool, but will research.
You guys are great!
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Friday, March 19th, 2021 AT 8:47 AM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Sounds great. Thanks for the update.

Are you asking which your vehicle has or what it is called? You have an ABS module and a hydraulic control unit.

I attached some info on this below if you are interested in it.
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Friday, March 19th, 2021 AT 7:49 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Wow, thanks again for you quick response.
I tried to bleed the ABS again with the same results. I repeated the test several times only to have the battery drain out.
Now I have a code u000288.
Vac c bus perf off and C210016 battery circuit low.
My jump pac has an alternator test feature and reported the alternator to be fine.
I removed the battery to find it was the original Dodge battery so I replaced it.
Dodge battery number did not match any known battery groups so I matched it up by size and terminal position.
Not exact but close enough.
Next move is to clean all grounds as the remote jumper negative terminal was badly rusted I had to use a different ground point to jump start the vehicle.

Also I am leaving for my local you pull it for the two sensors I have codes on
Vac pressure and multi access acceleration sensor
$12.00 a pop will make testing reasonable.
Then back to see if anything changed.
Thanks again
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Saturday, March 20th, 2021 AT 10:56 AM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the info.
Warm day in Pittsburgh Pa 60 s and sunny not bad for March.

Went to the U pic it today and got a vacuum pressure sensor Was tempted by the whole ABS unit but no way to cross reference part number.
So much for the right to repair.

Meanwhile back at the Dodge plugged each port of the master separately
Front port plugged high hard pedal.
Rear (firewall) plugged low hard pedal.
Spent a good bit of time following brake lines to no avail.
No way of knowing what comes out from the HCU. A diagram of the hydraulic circuit would be nice but nothing on the net or Alldata.
Tomorrow will do the diagnostic for the C1082.
Cleaned grounds cables and installed new battery.
Be safe and well all.
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Saturday, March 20th, 2021 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Hi guys. Are you aware the rear calipers do not self-adjust like front ones normally do on all cars? This was on of Chrysler's first attempts at switching over to the really miserable caliper design used by GM and Ford for decades where the parking brake is built into the calipers. It sounds to me like the right rear parking brake cable is rusted tight, so that one never applies. You have to apply the parking brake repeatedly to adjust these calipers. That can also be done at the wheel by applying the lever repeatedly with a large pliers.
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Saturday, March 20th, 2021 AT 8:09 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the input.
Replaced both rear calipers and pads.
Pistons are tight against the pads.
Be well.
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Saturday, March 20th, 2021 AT 9:49 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Brake lines at the HCU.
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Saturday, March 20th, 2021 AT 9:50 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Just to clarify what the current state is because it appears you limited it to the rear circuit. Did you replace the HCU and fix it or are you in the process of replacing it? Thanks
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Sunday, March 21st, 2021 AT 4:06 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Got to add a quick comment. The pistons only move out about 1/32" when the brakes are applied, so a visual inspection won't show if the calipers are adjusted. Based on the observation the right parking brake doesn't apply, it suggests that cable is rusted tight. If it is, that caliper will never adjust unless you do that manually with a large pliers. You have to work the parking brake lever on the back of the caliper repeatedly, by hand, but return-spring pressure is usually too strong to do that without the pliers.
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Sunday, March 21st, 2021 AT 7:33 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
The right parking brake was frozen in the on position
The cable was free however the lever on the caliper was frozen
Hence the new rear calipers and pads
The return spring is pretty easy to remove but you still need the vice grips to work the lever.
Everything is tight and I must have bled a half gallon of dot 3 threw the system and still have a low hard pedal
I believe that there is a stuck valve bad seal frozen solenoid in the ABS system
Appreciate the input be well
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Sunday, March 21st, 2021 AT 9:49 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Near as I can figure the front brake line (low pedal) off the master controls the front left and right rear brakes
To state the obvious the rear line off the master (firewall side) (high hard pedal) controls the front right and rear left brakes.
Wish I could find a illustration of the hydraulic circuit somewhere
Lose the brake line tracing at the firewall and just before the rear lines split off

I am somewhat confused by KASEKENNY1 s response about the rear circuit As far as I am aware brake circuits are split diagonally. The effect of the proportioning valve ( I assume it is done by the ABS computer) baffles me also.
I believe that there is a problem HCU with a stuck valve, bad seal, stuck solenoid.
I returned to basics yesterday and did another manual bleed and another ABS bleed. Manual bleed went well ABS not so much ABS bled right front then right rear. Got the same evac and filled status not performed message and could not proceed to the left side brakes
Was hoping if I could get through the ABS bleed that something would break free.
I am looking for a decent price and quality on a HCU. Dealer preferred but expensive used just a shot in the dark considering sending mine out to be rebuilt but have no info on any of these companies
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Monday, March 22nd, 2021 AT 10:18 AM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Just to keep me busy I wanted to do another test drive and no start. Nothing happens using the regular start procedure park brake push button
If I leave off the brake push the button to the run position I can shift into neutral then pus the start button and with the help off a jump back can get a very slow 4 second crank.
Get a battery light and an occasional vehicle not in park message when it is park but not when it is in neutral.
Did I mention brand new battery charged overnight?
Wanted to hit the starter with a hammer can t even see it.
Buried under the cat and motor mount bracket.
Can t thank you guys enough for your time knowledge and schooling me .
Be safe and well.
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Monday, March 22nd, 2021 AT 10:31 AM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Sounds like you are on the right path. At this point, I would be replacing the HCU as well. You are correct that they are split diagonally. I said rear just has habit as most people don't get this in depth.

Also, while I am not one to go to a used part first, in a situation like this as long as the seller provides some sort of return process in the event of new issues, it may make sense. The only reason is these are not a common failure and a used part is tested so the cheaper price may get you out ahead of the game. Clearly it is a risk but as I said, that is minimized if they have some sort of warranty. I would not buy an as is part with no return. Those are almost always junk.
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Monday, March 22nd, 2021 AT 6:54 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
KASEKENNY1,

Dodge does not make it easy when it comes to part numbers.
My son told me that as soon as Dodge has an updated part number they erase all reference to prior numbers and compatibility.
My parts number is P68171432AC.

The closest I can find is on eBay The part number is P68171432AD.

Even this close I am hesitant I did email the seller.
If you haven t noticed I am a firm believer that the devil is in the details. The part carries a 60 day warranty with the option for a 1 year protection plan for an additional $20.00 that I haven t looked into yet.
I am not sure if this unit would be plug and play or requires programming by the dealership.
Thanks guys
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:18 AM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Can you provide the last 8 of your VIN and I will look the part number up? Those part numbers are not coming up in Mopar's system so let's see if we can get the current number.

As for previous parts, that is true to a point but all that happens when they supersede the part is made some change to either the part or combined part numbers. However, I can look to see if any dealers have any of the part numbers.
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 5:34 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
Last eight of the VIN is DT507329.

Thanks
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Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 AT 7:56 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Part number according to Mopar for your HCU is 68164594AA.

I am showing a lot of dealers having one in stock but Mopar's depots have a lot as well so they are readily available. However this number can be cross referenced to after market options as well.

Let me know if you have other questions. Thanks
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Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 AT 6:40 PM
Tiny
PEPPERMRJAY
  • MEMBER
KASEKENNY1, would you be able to recommend an aftermarket supplier or a rebuild shop with a quick turnaround?
I found an exact match on eBay but it is in Lithuania. Lol
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Thursday, March 25th, 2021 AT 8:11 AM

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