Anti theft mode?

Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
  • 2011 DODGE JOURNEY
  • 3.6L
  • 6 CYL
  • 128,000 MILES
Battery perfect, starts perfect, sometimes the vehicle goes into anti theft mode and wont start, tried everything from adding second ground to frame to pulling battery and doing hard rest. When it wont start brake pedal is hard everything else comes on wont start. Wait 3 to 4 hours and the problem goes away and will start up. This happens about a week apart sometimes two and for no reason. Had the vehicle put on a computer of course the problem doesn't happen and mechanic says nothing wrong. Any way to bypass this or any other remedy?
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 12:18 PM

11 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
You should have a keyless start system? Meaning you push a button to start the vehicle?

The most likely cause of this is the keyless ignition node (KIN) is not picking up the key properly. Basically the KIN picks up the key and sends the signal to the PCM. Then the PCM allows the vehicle to start. More then likely the PCM is not getting a good signal from the KIN to allow the start but the BCM is seeing the button pushed and it turns on the other systems but the PCM is not allowing the engine to start.

I attached the process. Clearly there could be other issues but based on this info that is the most common cause.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 2:07 PM
Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
So the idea is to replace the push button start switch? If so, will it have to be programmed to match my key fob? I need to know if I will need to have the new push button start switch programmed to my key fob
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 2:15 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
No it does not need to be programmed but I just thought, when this happens, does the light on the KIN go from "off" to "on" and all the dash gauges come on? If this is the case then it is most likely not the KIN.

Does the key-less entry system work? Your vehicle has what is called an RF hub that picks up the actual signal not the KIN as I stated earlier. Sorry about that, Dodge has a number of different systems and I confused this one with another.

The RF hub needs to authenticate the key in order to unlock the doors when you approach the vehicle. Then when you press the KIN button, the RF hub has to do this again and then it allows the PCM to start the vehicle. So if the KIN button is changing state when you press it then it is okay.

The way to confirm this is to have the computer on the vehicle when this is acting up so that we can monitor the BCM to see if the key state is changing then also if the RF hub is sending the signal to start to the BCM. If it is then more then likely the BCM is not sending the signal to the PCM to start the engine.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 2:37 PM
Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
I never really looked as what lights around the kin is lit up when it locks up, the problem seems to happen sporadically so its not like I can take it to a mechanic when it happens, like yesterday, it locked up, we left the truck at my wife's job over night, today she walked out of her job got in and it started right up, but when it does lock up, all the lights on the dash board are on as if it was put to the run position but I have not noticed if the lights on the kin switch change.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 2:48 PM
Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
And yes the key less works both with pushing the fob as well as walking up to the drivers door. In fact last week I used the remote start button and it locked up at that point too, so if that helps.
As a quick check, I just went out used the remote start on the fob, but when I opened the door, the truck shut off, there is a half a tank of gas in it, not sure if that would be a sign of a bad KIN.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 2:50 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Okay. Does the remote start always shut off when you open the door? It clearly should not do that and there is a common misinformation that this is normal but it is not. I am thinking the BCM is at fault for all of this but we need a little more info to prove this. Just let me know if it does this every time and we can go from there. Thanks
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 7:11 PM
Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
I just tried the remote start, this time I opened the door and it continued to run as normal.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 7:17 PM
Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
And what does BCM stand for?
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 7:19 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Sorry. Body Control Module. Take a look at the attachment for how this all works.

That helps but tells us that the entire issue is intermittent. It is not definitive but this sounds like a BCM issue.

The way to confirm this is we need to hook a scan tool up to it while it is acting up. I know that is not easily done. The best suggest I have is if you were having someone look at it for you is to let them drive it for a week if it takes that long to act up. Basically they would need to agree to actually drive it and not just let it sit there and they test it once per day. They need to drive it home as if you were operating it and then when it acts up, have the scan tool with them to see what the BCM is being told from the RF hub and key state. This will tell us if the BCM is sending the message to start or not to the PCM. I suspect it is not doing this.

I understand this is not convenient but unfortunately these types of intermittent issues are not easy to figure out.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 7:44 PM
Tiny
PNUTDM31@GMAIL.COM
  • MEMBER
Yes, the problem is definitely intermittent and the BCM will have to be programmed as well? I know the RFHUB has to be programmed. I am contemplating replacing all three, the KIN, RFHUB and the BCM, tomorrow I will pull the bottom panel first to make sure all connections are tight first to be on the safe side to make sure its not as simple as a loose wire. I appreciate the help, you are the only person who has stepped up to give me some kind of direction and insight with out charging $150.00 an hour. Thank you.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 8:02 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY1
  • EXPERT
Totally understand. I attached the installation instructions for each the RF hub and BCM for your review. I would definitely agree with your thought to wiggle test the wiring and make sure it is all tight first. If not, I would probably do the same thing however just make sure you disconnect the battery when doing these things because I have seen a number of different issues that occur due to not unhooking the battery.
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Wednesday, August 5th, 2020 AT 6:40 PM

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