2002 Honda Civic P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304

Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • 2002 HONDA CIVIC

Electrical problem
2002 Honda Civic 4 cyl Two Wheel Drive Automatic 106000 miles

I am getting these 4 errors. I've checked the coil pack, and wires going to the coil packs. Everything looks ok. I got 12.4V with the key on, at the connectors going to the coil packs. I got 48.5-50.2 Ohms off the coils packs.

Now I would like to check the Camshaft Sensor, and Crankshaft Sensor. Where can I probe these sensors and what volatage, or resistance should I expect to see from these sensors.

FYI, I have an ODBC program I used to scan the car's PC, and I am only getting the 4 DTC's I listed in the Subject line.

***Edit***
I found a wiring diagram. This diagram said the CKP Sensor should be: Signal Wire-Blue, Ground-Brwn/Ylw, and Power (12V)-Ylw/Blck

I found a Blue wire with a single gray (paint) dot every inch or so. I probed it. It read: 1.36Kohm key off and.26V key on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The diagram said the TDC Sensor should be: Signal Wire-Green, Ground-Brwn/Ylw, and Power (12V)-Ylw/Blck

I found a light colored solid green wire. I probed it. It read: 3.6Kohm key off and.325V key on.


I found a darker colored green wire with a single gray (paint) dot every inch or so. I probed it. It read: 0.5ohm key off and.01V key on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The diagram said the IAC Valve should be: Signal Wire-Black/Red, Ground-Black, and Power (12V)-Ylw/Blck

I found a black/red wire. I probed it. It read: 1.17Kohm key off and.5V key on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Almost all of the power wires in this harness are Yellow/Black. I found one of these and probed it. It read: 12V Key On.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also I went back to basics and took out and read all 4 spark plugs. I'm assuming #1 is the right-most cylinder when facing the engine. Plug #1 had a tan strap otherwise was mostly black. Plug #2 was 100% black. Plug #3 had a tan strap otherwise was mostly black. Plug #4 had a tan strap otherwise was mostly black. Most of the plugs were darker than I would expect, but it's all relative to the way the car has been running, I'm sure.

Do you
have the same problem?
Yes
No
Saturday, March 13th, 2010 AT 2:09 PM

22 Replies

Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

Anyone, please. Help needed.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, March 13th, 2010 AT 11:50 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

Hi suzbandit987,

Thank you for the donation and sorry for the delay in replying.

From the symptom and condition description of the spark plugs, I believe they are bad.

The spark plugs are shorted causing the misfiring. Get them replaced and retest.

Even if the spark plugs are new, I would not discount the possibility of them going bad.

Was any repairs done prior to this occurring?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 1:00 AM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

The 100K maintenance was complete about 3 months ago. Timing belt, Water Pump, Tensioner. I changed the spark plugs about 8 months ago, or so. At this point I was assuming the plugs looked the way they did because my wife ran the car in this misfiring condition for several miles. I will of course take your advice and we'll see what happens.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 1:22 AM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

Why do you say that you believe the plugs are shorting?

*Edit*
So I assume you do not see anything wrong with the electrical measurements I took. Right?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 1:23 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

No, the readings do look ok. When a problem occurs, we need to start with the basics to avoid unnecessary and expensive parts and time to be wasted.

If problem had started after the timing belt replacment, then you could have a timing belt synchronisation problem. Recheck the timing belt markings to ensure they are correct.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 1:42 AM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

Ok, I changed the spark plugs. When I started the car it acted the same. Very rough idle, and acted like a car that is running a cylinder or two short. Also the car will not rev above 3K RPM. What's next? The only thing I haven't checked is the fuel injectors.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 11:31 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

The trouble codes you posted on the title had been truncated due to space. Can you please list them all out for me so I know I jhave not missed anything.

When was the last time you retrieved the trouble codes?
Are they still the same? If yes, I would suggest getting a compression test done first.

As the spark plugs are sooty, the injectors should be working.

It definitelty seems like you have a cylinder that is not firing well.

Try to identify which cylinder is acting weird by disconnecting the injector connector one at a time to test.

Get a compression test done to see if the readings are within specs.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 3:44 PM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

The codes are P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, and P0304.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
+1
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

I ran a compression check. #1 was 235psi, #2 was 235psi, #3 was 230psi, and #4 was 235psi.

What are the odds of having good compression on all cylinders if the timing belt skipped a tooth or two?

The new spark plugs I put in this morning already look terrible, with #3 still looking the worst. Doesn't that make sense with the timing belt theory?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 9:54 PM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

I went to scan for codes again, but my laptop died. I'll re-run a new scan tomorrow and post up what I find.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, March 14th, 2010 AT 11:16 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

Th trouble codes indicate a misfiring in all the cylinders.

Here is a chart for the misfiring and what to check for.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_DTCP0300_02CivicFig75_1.jpg



The compression is rather high, specification minimum is only 153 psi.

Timing belt off a cog might not affect the compression much but it will affect the ignition timing.

Get a timing light to check the ignition timing and if it is out of specs, that would confirm the timing belt installation error.

If above all looks good, check the fuel pressure.
The fuel injectors could be possible causes too but it is not likely for all 4 to go out at the same time.

Another thing to check would be the valve clearances.

I have sent the complete diagnostic procedures to you as pdf files. It is too large to be posted here.

Let me know if it gets through correctly.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 15th, 2010 AT 6:59 AM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

Why would compression be too high? Let me double check and make sure I didn't read KiloPascals and report in PSI.

My car is more the misfiring at low rpm's and under load type.

I did not get the files you sent me.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 15th, 2010 AT 9:30 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

I am resending the file.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 15th, 2010 AT 10:34 AM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

I still have not recieved the PDF you sent me. I will run another scan in a couple of hours and see what codes I have now.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 15th, 2010 AT 12:22 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

Ok, in the meantime we shall also wait and see if the files arrive.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 15th, 2010 AT 12:26 PM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

Still no PDF. I scan the car again, and now I get NO codes what so ever? I ran it, rev'ed it, scanned it. No codes. Reapeat, still no codes.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, March 15th, 2010 AT 4:25 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

Do you have any other emails that I can send the files to?

Misfiring codes sometimes requires repeated occurrence so you might need to drive the vehicle for a longer period.

Do you have difficulty starting after engine is stopped for some time? At least the starting time is prolonged whereby you need to crank for some time?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 AT 12:16 PM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

I had a leak down test done at a local shop. They said the #2 and #3 are leaking badly (80%.) Does it make sense to have poor leak results but real high compression? Maybe if the timing were off?

These are my 3 options, right?

Timing Issue
Head Gasket
Bent Valve, Valve not Seating

How can I differentiate between these 3 issues. I'm thinking to check the timing indicators between the block and pulleys, check the oil and collant, but what about the valves? I suppose the only way is to disassemble until I can see them? Any other possible issues?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 AT 1:51 PM
Tiny
SUZBANDIT987
  • MEMBER

The #2 and #3 exhaust leaks are leaks into the exhaust ports. Perhaps a valve spring broke or it ran too hot for too long. Is it acceptable to resurface the mating surface of the head, being that is it Alum?

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 AT 6:27 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
  • 41,967 POSTS

If the valves are leaking badly, the compression should be affected.

To confirm if it is the valves, loosen the valve lifters and with piston at BDC, apply regulated compressed air into the plug hole and listen for leaks at the exhaust or intake manifold.

The head or gasket would seldom cause any problem unless you have overheating and coolant losses issues.

I would suggest rechecking the timing belt installation first before you go further. A wrongly installed timing belt cvan cause leakages problem. If you have not checked the ignition timing, get ti done to see if it is within spec. An out of spec ignition timing would indicate an error with the timing belt installation.

Though the cylinder head is aluminium, it can be refaced but there is a limit to how much can be done.

Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 AT 7:02 AM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Related P0303 Content

Recommended guides