1993 Dodge Shadow Car Stalls after 5 mins and then won't st

Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
  • 1993 DODGE SHADOW
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 80,000 MILES
I have a funny problem. My dodge shadow will start only for 5 mins then it will not restart for a long time. I have replaced the fuel filter and confirm 40psi of constant fuel pressure all the way to the fuel regulator. Also I have noticed that crud is spitting out my exhaust onto the snow when the engine is running but oil and coolant do not seem to be changing their level so I don't think its burning that. Could this be a fuel regulator or fuel injector problem. Also I used a noid light to confirm good working electrical to the inject. I have also just recently changed the spark plugs which are crudding up but a dry crud not like when a cylinder is burning oil. And I have had the battery and the alternator professionally tested a week prior.

Please help I'm running out of ideas and I need a reliable car that does not keep costing me for tows.

Thanks for your help
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Wednesday, January 7th, 2009 AT 5:01 AM

16 Replies

Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok when it stalls what is missing? Is there fuel and spark when it dies? One ot the other must be missing when it stalls. Get back to me with that so we go in the right direction for the fix ok. Thanks.
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Thursday, January 8th, 2009 AT 10:51 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
The fuel pressure never changed even during the stall. The plug wires were still working because I used an inductive spark plug tool.

Then engine was very rough when it runs for the 5 mins before it stall and I had a rough idle problem before.

I have a funny feeling that it is a sensor problem maybe the

Throttle Body Temperature Sensor
Oxygen Sensor
Idle air control valve

I can't afford to change more parts than necessary but I do not know how to check these parts for proper functioning.

Also I keep getting carbon spitting out of the exhaust like the engine is running to rich and maybe that is part of the reason that the engine is stalling.

I think it could be related to these sensors and the computer is not sending the fuel to the engine correctly.

What do you think I will try all diagnostic steps possible I have a fairly equipped garage.

Thanks once again
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Thursday, January 8th, 2009 AT 1:26 PM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok first lets test the Coolant Temp Sensor. I need you to unplug it and get an Ohm's reading from the sensor and not the temp at the time and get be the temp with the ohms ok.
Now I would also like to check the TPS too. I need you to use a digital ohm meter and first check the Blk/Light blue wire for resistance to ground. You can unplug it or back probe it for this ok. Now with the key on engine off check the violet and white wire for voltage let me know how many volts are there. Now with the sensor plugged in and the key on engine off check the orange and dark blue wire with the throttle closed it should read.8 to 1 volt now slowly lift the throttle and it should slowly and steadly increase with no drops or glitched in voltage to 4.5 to 5 volts. Let me know what you get and we will take it from there.
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Friday, January 9th, 2009 AT 10:21 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
I could not get an ohm reading on the coolant sensor. I got 0 ohms when reading from both of the pins to ground. Also it was super cold outside tonight in Ottawa Canada and the coolant must have been cold. But I don't think that is a normal reading for a coolant sensor.

I then checked the Blk/Blue of the TPS to ground and got 0.4ohms

I then put the car on but not started and got a voltage of 5v for the Violet / White to ground when not connect to the TPS sensor.

After reconnecting the wire to the TPS and checking the Orange/Dark Blue to ground when the car was in the on position with the throttle closed it was.787V with it wide open I got 3.6V.

Also I'm getting three codes in the computer
12 ignore since it means the battery was disconnected within 50 starts
35 radiator fan relay circuit indicates an open or shorted condition
55 end of codes

I have check all the relays in the engine compartment and check the ohms reading across the coil and they all read between 60 to 80 ohms which I understand is perfect.

I changed the O2 sensor and the distributor cap rotor and plug wires yesterday for new ones.

Please let me know as soon as possible what you think this is helping me alot and I wish to have the car running again asap.
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Saturday, January 10th, 2009 AT 10:12 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
Also one last thing.

I have a full haynes manual but it mentions nothing about coolant sensor changing. So if it is a bad coolant sensor could you give instructions on how to change it.

Thanks for all your help. This site is super helpful and I will definitely make a second donation once my car is working again.
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Saturday, January 10th, 2009 AT 10:37 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok you need to give me an ohm reading across the terminals on the sensor not to ground and what the temp is at the time. So if the car is cold the ambient air temp at the time of the test will work. Here is a pic of the sensor and the ohms reading is across the two terminals of the sensor ok. Let me know what you find.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_495975_1.jpg

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Sunday, January 11th, 2009 AT 10:17 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
I did not get a proper reading so for the $16 dollars for a new sensor I swapped it out this morning. Pretty easy took me about a half an hour.

I'm now getting a code 24 which is throttle position sensor voltage high or low. Test the throttle position sensor.

Also I'm still getting code 35.

I can start the engine if I put my foot somewhat down on the gas pedal but once it starts it will not keep a constant rpm if my foot stays in the same place also if I take my foot off the gas and let it return to idle the car will stall out.

I'm thinking this confirms that the TPS is dead what do you think.

Also could you give me some pointers on how to diagnose the radiator fan relay circuit.

Thanks once again. And I will definitely make sure to make a second donation once my car is fixed this website is awesome.

Thanks
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Sunday, January 11th, 2009 AT 11:02 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok first we need to know how many volts are at the tps. So unplug it and see what volts are at the violet and white wire with the key on engine off. Let me know what the volts are there. The PCM may not be sending the right amount of voltage to the TPS. This will tell us why the code 24 is there.

Now for the code 35. This is telling us that there is a short to the fan ralay circuit, so lets test the TPS first and then I will look for a wiring diagram on the relay circuit and we will get into that next ok.
Let me know what you find.
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Monday, January 12th, 2009 AT 10:19 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
I changed the TPS sensor and it was definitely dead because the moment I changed it my car will start easy and not spit carbon crud out the exhaust

However I still have stalling issues. And the engine seems almost skip a beat every now and then.

I checked the map sensor on pin k4 which is Dark Green / Red and should have 5v I get 4.56V

If I apply vacuum to the map sensor I get a max of 4.97V and if I apply pressure I get as low as 1.7v. The voltage changes are smooth as vacuum or pressure is applied.

Are these odd for this map sensor.

I have no computer codes but it still seems to stall after about 2 mins.

Could it be a bad injector, fuel pressure regulator, spark plug, throttle body temperature sensor, Automatic Idle Speed Motor.

I'm not sure what to check and need this car running as soon as possible.

Your help is greatly appreciated.
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Monday, January 12th, 2009 AT 11:08 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok have you checked the cap and rotor to see how it looked. Now that you have one problem fixed lets move to the simple and go from there. Also check the wires for ohms let know what they ohm out at and how long the wires are too. For example wire one is 10 inches and has 8000 ohms ok. Let me know what you find. Thanks.
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Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 AT 10:17 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
Hi Racefan966

The plug wires are brand new and so is the distributor cap and rotor. The plug wires are two lengths the 1 and the 4 cyclinder I put the longer ones and the 2 and 3 have the smaller cyliners. The spark plugs are pretty gummed up with carbon and I just bought new ones to see if that fixes the problem.

I included in my last post the voltages for the map pressure sensor I'm not sure if they are within spec though could you have a look.

To recap

Parts Changed
-Rotor
-Didstributor Cap
-Plug Wires
-O2 sensor
-Coolant Sensor
-TPS Sensor

Also Could you tell me what the little plastic device is on the vacuum line coming off the throttle body on the left side its underneath the throttle body temperature sensor. Its green for me.

I took my car out for a drive today after running tune up in a can through the engine. The engine is now running alot smoother probably because of all the soot was cleaned out from the engine running really rich before I changed the tps sensor.

However I still stalled out at 2 stop signs and almost stall 1 time while accelerating.

Each time the car started super easy after stalling.

What could cause this. I think we are on the very brink of solving all the problems. Also no trouble codes anymore which is good.

Thanks.
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Tuesday, January 13th, 2009 AT 11:06 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
First let me go over the fan relay wiring so you can test that. White wire (a) 12 volts ingnition on. Gray wire (b) battery voltage. Dk blue/pink wire (c) control. Light green wire (d) output.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_Graphic_23.jpg


Map sensor say's to read normal as far as the voltages go. Have you checked the EGR valve at all if it is sticking open at all it will make a car hesitate and stall at idle speeds. I would unplug the vacuum line to it (the vavle itself) and plug it and take it for a test drive if the stalling stops then it is bad. Here is what you are looking for.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_95891_1.jpg

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Wednesday, January 14th, 2009 AT 9:45 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
I could not find the egr valve at all. I looked for 20 mins and used the haynes manual to trace the vacuum lines.

In the Haynes Manual it says BACK PRESSURE EGR VALVE AND EET ASSEMBLY (IF EQUIPPED).

So I do not think my car has one.

Would the Purge Solenoid Valve cause stalling.

I changed the spark plugs.

I think it has to be a fuel problem but I checked the fuel delivery to the engine and it was constant at 40 psi even when it stalled out.

I noticed that I stalled atleast 4 times when the engine slowed down and atleast a couple of times when accelerating.

I reconnected the my fuel pressure gauge on the gas intake line to the throttle body. It read 42 psi but when the engine would stall it would hit 35 psi after the engine turned off. If I pinched the fuel return and watched the pressure gauge on the intake side it would jump to over 100 psi.

I think this tells me the fuel pressure regulator is ok.

How can I check the fuel injector. It was making a constant ticking noise as it was firing. And I looked at the throttle plate and it looked like gas was being sprayed fairly constantly on it.

Any ideas.

Thanks.
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Wednesday, January 14th, 2009 AT 11:43 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Oh it has one it is on the intake manifold somewhere. It is federal law that it has an egr valve otherwise you would not pass inspection if your state has an inspection.
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Thursday, January 15th, 2009 AT 10:20 AM
Tiny
MOBIUS82
  • MEMBER
Hi Racefan966,

My car does not have an egr. I'm in Canada and turns out there were models made without egr.

I called a mechanic they have a funny feeling that the reluctor is dead in the distributor. They tried the hammer the distributor trick with no luck but he still thinks that the problem.

I'm likely to trade it in tonight for a new car and cut my losses.

Thanks for all your help and I will definitely use this forum in the future for the other cars I have.

Thanks.
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Thursday, January 15th, 2009 AT 11:13 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok that is true you didn't say it was a canadian vehicle. With that I would look into the pickup coil I will include a pick of it. It is very easy to replace and you just pull the distributor cap off and then remove the two screws that hold the pickup coil on and unplug it and remove thats it. If you use an ohm meter on it the resistance across the connector should be between 11,500 to 15,300 ohms. Here is the pic of it.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_50879_1.jpg

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Friday, January 16th, 2009 AT 10:34 AM

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