Check engine light on

Tiny
CARL DEKKER
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 CHEVROLET AVALANCHE
  • 5.2L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 120,000 MILES
I have four separate short term fuel trims and four separate long term fuel trim stored reading. First and second stft are under 10%. First and second ltft are under 10%. Third and fourth stft and ltft are maxed out at 33%. I have changed up stream oxygen sensors, spark plugs, MAP sensor, mass air flow sensor. Still seeing check engine light. Help!
Monday, March 28th, 2022 AT 9:14 PM

40 Replies

Tiny
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Additionally I used Lucus fuel Injector cleaner 3 times and also replaced gas cap.
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Tuesday, March 29th, 2022 AT 5:57 AM
Tiny
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Hi Carl, the short-term fuel trims normally should be between -10% and +10%. If the engine is under a heavy load and you are pressing hard on the throttle, it will increase above +10%. The higher gears will normally place more of a load on the engine, so that is a possibility.

So, can you tell me if there are drivability issues? Also, have you retrieved any diagnostic trouble codes indicating a problem?

Let me know as much as you can. I will watch for your reply.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, March 29th, 2022 AT 6:30 PM
Tiny
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Thanks for answering my questions. DTC is P219A lean bank one. I believe that this is a generic code and opens up a lot of possibilities. Correct me if I am wrong, I believe that ltft 1 is at idle, ltft 2 is recorded from 0 to 15 mph, ltft 3 is from 15 to 30 mph and ltft 4 is from 30 to 50 mph.I ruled out a vacuum leak because the ltft went from 4% in 1 and 2 to maxed out at 33% in 3 and 4. The vehicle has a very slight rough idle when at a stoplight, however there are no issues when driving. No backfire no hesitation no stalling. If I go to WOT it takes off and hauls ass. My next attempts will be replacing the fuel filter and then checking out the fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator. I am guessing that the ECM is adding fuel to the engine after the vehicle reaches higher speeds.
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Wednesday, March 30th, 2022 AT 7:22 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

The fuel filter is a good idea. If it is restricting fuel delivery, it certainly can cause a lean mixture. As far as the regulator, here is a link that explains how to check the fuel pressure and the regulator:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Since the lean mixture is only bank 1, I have to ask. Are there any exhaust leaks? If you have one upstream, it can create a lean signal to be provided by the downstream sensor.

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, March 30th, 2022 AT 7:33 PM
Tiny
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Hey Joe, I went to order a fuel filter but found out it is unserviceable because it is in the fuel tank. As for an exhaust leak, would that not be evident also in the long-term fuel trim at idle and the long-term fuel trim at 0 to 15. I'm showing a good number on long-term fuel trim one and two. Would not a leak vacuum or otherwise be evident in all four long-term fuel trim freeze frames.
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Thursday, March 31st, 2022 AT 5:47 PM
Tiny
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Also, I can easily access the fuel pump while it is in the tank from the floorboard in the Avalanche as I have replaced that fuel pump 50,000 miles ago is there or should I look at inspect the fuel pump as it is now sitting in a fuel tank.
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Thursday, March 31st, 2022 AT 5:49 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

A vacuum leak would cause a lean fuel mixture. Do you know what the short-term fuel trims are? Also, since it is only one side, make sure you don't hear a ticking sound from in front of the catalytic converter (manifold) which can cause a lean mixture.

I attached the description and possible causes below. Note: that one is an exhaust leak pre catalytic converter. That's why I'm suggesting it could be an issue.

Also, toward the end of the descriptions are directions specific to circuit testing. Take a look through them and let me know if you feel comfortable doing them.

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below.
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Thursday, March 31st, 2022 AT 6:10 PM
Tiny
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So, to be clear I'm trying to understand the four freeze frames data that's recorded on my code reader. I have freeze frame number one that shows short-term fuel trim and long-term fuel trim at 4%. I have a second freeze frame that's showing short-term fuel trim and long-term fuel trim at 3%, which I believe represents 15 to 30 MPH, then I have another freeze frame number three and it has a short-term fuel trim and long-term fuel trim maxed out at 33% and then I have a fourth freeze frame that shows short-term fuel trim and long-term fuel trim maxed out at 33%. So, am I wrong in thinking that something is throwing that check engine light on when my vehicle is under load?
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Thursday, March 31st, 2022 AT 7:11 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

No, sir. You are not wrong. Based on the info you provided, that is very possible. I may have already asked, but have you checked fuel pressure, for vacuum leaks, and the engine coolant temperature sensor signal? Also, are there any exhaust leaks?

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, April 1st, 2022 AT 1:15 PM
Tiny
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Morning Joe, I used another code reader and ran more data off my diagnostic port found my fuel rail pressure to be at 315KPAG which I then found means 45 psi to my fuel rail IM guessing that’s low might that be causing my problem.
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Saturday, April 2nd, 2022 AT 9:57 AM
Tiny
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I forgot to include that that rail pressure was off my freeze frame which occurred while I was under heavy load.
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Saturday, April 2nd, 2022 AT 9:58 AM
Tiny
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Just want to do include one other thing that this new code reader gave me an absolute load value at the time of the freeze frame at 49% and my speed was 60 miles an hour.
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Saturday, April 2nd, 2022 AT 10:00 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

I believe fuel pressure should be between 55 and 60psi at idle. However, if it is a flex-fuel vehicle, 45 is likely correct.

Let me know.

Joe
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Saturday, April 2nd, 2022 AT 8:48 PM
Tiny
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Thanks again Joe, l have been using another code reader and cleared the code yesterday. Today the Check Engine Light came on and I used the new code reader. Now in addition to the P219A I also have a P2200, and it says that this code has set the Check Engine Light. I have replaced the two upstream O2 sensors and the code reappeared P2200. Since I have the P219A should I be looking at number 1 bank only?
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Sunday, April 3rd, 2022 AT 7:57 AM
Tiny
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Interestingly, the P2200 isn't listed on this year and model. See pic 1.

The code itself indicates that NOx gases readings are out of parameters. In most cases, the code is set due to a faulty catalytic converter. However, that usually happened due to a different problem such as a misfire, rich fuel mixture, high fuel pressure, and the list goes on.

Again, both the P219A and the P2200 are related to bank one, so that is where the issue is.
So, I have a question. Are there any exhaust leaks? Do you have an infrared thermometer?

If you do, allow the engine to reach operating temperature. Check the temperature of the exhaust pipe before and after the bank 1 converter. See if there is a big difference in the temperature. If there is, chances are it is the converter.

If there is an exhaust leak before the converter, it will indicate a lean fuel mixture causing the computer to compensate by adding fuel. (The high fuel trim 33%)

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, April 3rd, 2022 AT 4:43 PM
Tiny
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Hey Joe, thanks again that sounds very good to me. I do have an infrared temperature thermometer, so I'll give that a shot and let you know. Thanks again
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Sunday, April 3rd, 2022 AT 6:05 PM
Tiny
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Carl,

You are very welcome. It's tough not being there, so hang in there. We'll get it figured out one way or another.

Take care,

Joe
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Sunday, April 3rd, 2022 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
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Hey Joe, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I've been walleye fishing up in Green Bay Wisconsin. I'm back at it now trying to figure out this check engine light. I did take the temperatures on both caps and on the driver side the front was 450 and the rear was 460 and on the passenger side the front was 390 and the rear was 440. I'm guessing those are some good temperatures. I'm not sure you tell me you're the pro not sure why it says caps, but I meant catalytic converters.
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Monday, April 11th, 2022 AT 4:20 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

The readings actually are cooler than I expected. With the idea that the vehicle is producing high Nox gases (P2200), we are likely to have a vacuum leak specific to the bank involved. Have you checked all around the intake manifold and are you certain there is no pre catalytic converter exhaust leak?

As far as the temperatures, where there is a variation of approximately 200+ degrees, that usually indicates a problem. You are nowhere near that.

Recheck the intake for leaks where it mounts. Also, try this and let me know the results. Attach your scanner. With the engine at idle check the MAP sensor parameters. The readings should be between 2.7 and 6 PSI.

Let me know.

Joe
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Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 AT 7:50 PM
Tiny
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Okay, I will. Thanks again.
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Wednesday, April 13th, 2022 AT 11:10 AM

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