1994 Cadillac El Dorado proms

Tiny
PETERRMICK
  • MEMBER
  • 1994 CADILLAC EL DORADO
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 102,000 MILES
The car will run perfectly for several days then suddenly stall when the acelerator is pressed. No power. Sometimes the odor of raw gas is present. I can't relate it to running time, engine temp. Or weather etc.

The "service engine soon" light is always on.

A code "P080 current" always shows. Idle self learn.

I have substituted the ECU, replaced the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) and the throttle position sensor, none corrected or changed the symptoms.

I used the original proms in the substituted ECU

I accurately used the General Motors "TP sensor/IDLE learn" programming to remove the P080 code from current status to history status, it didn't remove it. They refer to "Notes on Fault Tree" when the code doesn't become a history code. 94I33025

The questions being;
Where can I locate proms for the car "94 ETC"?
Where can I get the GM Fault tree for the
P080 problem?
What is the problem?

Thanking you in advance, P. Mick
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Saturday, April 25th, 2009 AT 2:35 PM

8 Replies

Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Hi peterrmick,

Thank you for the donation.

Here are the explanation of the fault tree. Hope it is the one you are refering to.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_FaultTree94Elcorado_1.jpg




http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_CodeP080a1_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_CodeP080a2_1.jpg



"Where can I locate proms for the car "94 ETC"? "

I am sorry I do not understand what you are refering to from the above, can you please elaborate?
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Tuesday, April 28th, 2009 AT 12:49 PM
Tiny
OBXAUTOMEDIC
  • EXPERT
Hello,

With respect to the 4.9L engine and Northstar (4.6L) engine, the P080 code has different meanings.

For the Northstar, the Factory Manual states the P080 code means there is a "TP SENSOR IDLE LEARN NOT COMPLETE" problem.

The P080 code in the 4.9L engine refers to 'FUEL SYSTEM RICH'

INFORMATION RELATED TO P080 CODE AND 4.9L ENGINE:

In the 4.9L engine, the purpose of the P080 code is to detect a rich condition in the fuel injection system, or continuous evaporative (EVAP) control canister purge.

1. A rich fuel injection system can be caused by:
A. Leaking injector
B. Faulty fuel pressure regulator
C. Restricted fuel return line

2. Continuous evaporative emission (EVA) control canister purge can be caused by:
A. A leaking purge valve
B. Purge solenoid, circuit or PCM

.
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Tuesday, April 28th, 2009 AT 2:14 PM
Tiny
PETERRMICK
  • MEMBER
The PROMS refer to the plug-in memories for the
ECU I substituted. I couldn't get new ones so I used the original memories (they could have transferred the problem)

I rechecked the procedure to clear the "current P080" and it is still there and so is the problem.

I don't know the difference between the TP sensor and the throttle position sensor (which was replaced- a potentiometer)

I'm not a mechanic but the problem "feels" like a mechanical one to me. It seems to start when the throttle is closed, and when it starts the car is immediately not drive-able. No power and not many RPMs in neutral. The car has to sit for several hours before the problem clears. Once it clears the car runs perfectly for a few hours to a few weeks and when the problem reoccurs I can't relate it to time, driving conditions or temperature.

When the car is not running correctly the MAP sensor reads about 14mmHg (low pressure) steadily when read off of the ECU data bus. Could the throttle body plate be stuck in the closed position, is there a procedure for maintaining it or checking it mechanically, The Map sensor has been replaced and behaves like the first one and also neither gave a fault code.

I hope this helps and thanks for the support. Pete M.
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Friday, May 1st, 2009 AT 2:59 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Hi Pete,

TP and throttle position sensor are the same. Just noticed it was repeated with both names. Sorry for confusing you.

Did you clear the codes before trying the relearn procedure? Is your engine 4.6 or 4.9 as pointed out by my fellow technician, obxautomedic?

Was the TP replaced a new or used unit?
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Saturday, May 2nd, 2009 AT 3:12 PM
Tiny
PETERRMICK
  • MEMBER
The TP was replaced with a new one and it behaved the same as the one that was replaced, responsive when the engine was running normally but steady at high vacuum when the engine was running poorly (as seen on a scanner). The engine is a 4.6L. I didn't erase any codes and I don't know how to do it. The only one showing is P080.

Any comment on the throttle body butterfly "sticking" causing the low manufold pressure? Pete
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Monday, May 4th, 2009 AT 8:18 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
Hi Pete,

If the throttle butterfly is sticking, you would feel it on the accelerator.

Here are the procedures for clearing the codes. Without clearing the codes, the PCM might not react correctly.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_ServiceModeOperation94Eldorado01_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_ServiceModeOperation94Eldorado02_1.jpg



The service mode chart is too small to be printed legibly and if you require it, let me know what emial to send to.
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Tuesday, May 5th, 2009 AT 12:08 PM
Tiny
PETERRMICK
  • MEMBER
I hope the diagram helps (e-mail is peterrmick@comcast. Net *note the 2 r's), I assume that is FIG2 in your response. Is the Michaels1 repair manual a worth while investment? (Assuming I get back on the road). Thank you Pete
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Wednesday, May 6th, 2009 AT 7:35 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • EXPERT
I will be sending the files to you. Let me know once you get it.

I would say Mitchel1 is a worthwhile subscription. You have almost all the technical information of the vehicle.

If I am not mistaken, the fees is $30 for a single model for 1 year. If you wish to have further information, I can get one of the administrators to explain it to you in details.
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Wednesday, May 6th, 2009 AT 9:33 AM

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