2000 BMW 528 Expansion / clank noise upon cold startup.

Tiny
SWALSH152
  • MEMBER
  • 2000 BMW 528
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 178,000 MILES
My car makes this horrible loud clank sound or maybe it's metal expanding when its warming up. It goes away when the engine is warm. Also, I have a rough cold idle issue. I've recently replaced 02 sensors, plugs, fuel filter & cam sensors. Again when the car warms up the idle smooths out, but is not perfect. I have trouble codes P1188, 1189 & P1030. To hear the sound go to youtube search for E39 BMW 528i rough idle at cold start by swalsh152 or maybe this will work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V94RzEoVSmo
The noise I'm worried about is clearly heard at second 45-52
Appreciate the help.
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Monday, October 11th, 2010 AT 3:02 PM

12 Replies

Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
We do have a BMW expert Doc Hagerty, but I will try this one. Your 2 P01188 and 1189 are fuel system related codes as far as I can tell, BMW seems to try to confuse things a bit, I recommend pressure testing the fuel system and the fuel pressure regulator. P1030 I can't find if it is an actual code, it's a BMW factory code, not yet released to the wild. Here's the by the book method of testing:
Page 1 of 2

NOTE: For fuel system pressure testing, see BASIC DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES article.

FUEL DELIVERY
Fuel Pump Relay
Remove fuel pump relay. Apply battery voltage to relay terminals No. 30 and 86. See Fig. 36. Ground relay terminal No. 85. Voltage should now exist at relay terminal No. 87. Replace relay if it does not work as indicated.
NOTE: If relay does not work on vehicle, check battery feed, DME master (main) relay, DME/Motronic control unit and ground circuits going to fuel pump relay. See WIRING DIAGRAMS article. Only sockets No. 2, 4, 6 and 8 are used by relay.

Fuel Pressure Regulator
As operating mode of engine varies, so does amount of fuel it requires, ranging from low at idle speed to high at full throttle. This requirement is set with the help of pressure regulator. Pressure regulator governs fuel pressure, controlling it between low and high to suit requirements. Fine adjustment of fuel injection quantity is performed using fuel injection period controlled by DME. Vacuum in intake manifold provides load connection for pressure regulation. This vacuum is applied to diaphragm in pressure regulator. At idle speed or when coasting, a vacuum develops in intake pipe. Fuel pressure reduces by this amount, starting from nominal value. Nominal value is embossed in housing of pressure regulator. At full throttle, intake pipe is approximately zero and pressure regulator controls fuel pressure to nominal value embossed on housing.
1. Remove fuel pressure regulator. See REMOVAL, OVERHAUL & INSTALLATION article. Note code number and nominal pressure on fuel pressure regulator body. Install BMW Service Tester (133060) with connecting hose (133064) in fuel feed left line. 2. Remove fuel pump relay. See DME & FUEL PUMP RELAY LOCATION table. Connect jumper wire between relay base terminals No. 30 and 87. Read off fuel injection pressure on pressure gauge. 3. If fuel pressure drops rapidly, seal return line (upper line) with Clamp (133010) and briefly operate fuel pump. If injection pressure in now stable, pressure regulator is defective. If injection pressure drops, check for leak in front of pressure regulator.
Fuel Pressure Check (Lack Of Power)
Run engine at idle and check fuel pressure. See FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR. Disconnect vacuum hose from fuel pressure regulator, simulating wide open throttle. If fuel pressure does not increase 5.8-10.1 psi (.40-.71 kg/cm2 ), replace vacuum hose and repeat test. If fuel pressure still does not increase, replace fuel pressure regulator.

Fuel Pressure Check (Hard Start)
1. Run engine at idle then turn off. Note fuel pressure. Note fuel pressure again after 20-30 minutes. If fuel pressure decreases by greater than 7.2 psi (.5 kg/cm2 ), turn engine on, wait for pressure to stabilize, then turn engine off and immediately clamp off intake line near pressure gauge with Clamp (133010). Note fuel pressure. Read fuel pressure again after 20-30 minutes. 2. If fuel pressure drops by less than 7.2 psi (.5 kg/cm2 ), check for fault in fuel supply lines, in-tank supply hose, or defective non-return valve in fuel pump. If fuel pressure again drops by more than 7.2 psi (.5 kg/cmcm2 ), replace pressure regulator.

Fuel Pressure & Volume
1. To check fuel pressure, install BMW Service Tester or DIS tester with connecting line and "T"Section (13 3 064) in the fuel delivery line between fuel filter and pressure regulator. Fuel in fuel lines is under 44 psi (3 bar) pressure. Catch and dispose of escaping fuel. See FUEL PRESSURE & DELIVERY PERFORMANCE table. 2. Disconnect fuel return line. Attach an extension hose. Place hose in Measuring Glass (133020). Remove fuel pump relay. Apply battery voltage to relay base terminals No. 30 and 87. See Fig. 36. See FUEL PRESSURE & DELIVERY PERFORMANCE table.
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Wednesday, October 13th, 2010 AT 11:18 PM
Tiny
DR. HAGERTY
  • MEMBER
I was actually resisting answering this. My sound card is dead and it is a practical impossibility to hear something at this time, however, the other issues are driven from something else. The replacement of the components listed in your post was prompted by the a driveability problem, yes?
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Thursday, October 14th, 2010 AT 1:36 AM
Tiny
SWALSH152
  • MEMBER
Gentlemen,
First to answer Dr. Hagerty question. I purchased the car 18mths ago, just before it went to the austion block at a local dealer. The fact it had a recent oil service sticker from a local German indy (shop has a good rep) was one of the reasons I purchased the car. Yes, I replaced the parts listed because it didn't have service records available and had driveablilty issues. Some days ran great, others a little slugish. With 170K miles I figured it was a good thing to do. I also cleaned the TB & ICV then too. Inspected boots & checked for leaks when I buttoned her back up. A guy at work listened to the video, he said the clank sound is not the exhaust manifold expanding, but reckons it's pre-ignition. (He spent teenage years working at a BMW shop). Said it may be because on warmup the VANO closes the exhaust valves early combined with low AF ratio. I'll go for that. I'll follow Merlin's low fuel press trouble shooting. It makes sense. I got air & spark, clean plugs & good sensors. May be low fuel pressure. I'll get to it this weekend and let you know how I get on. Thanks. Stu.
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Thursday, October 14th, 2010 AT 8:09 AM
Tiny
SWALSH152
  • MEMBER
Ok guys, I checked the fuel press and I have 50psi on the rail. The knock sound remains : ( I uploaded a video on YouTube. Search BMW 528i engine knock 50psi. I'm interested in your opinion. I'm at a loss. Stu.
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Friday, October 15th, 2010 AT 6:19 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
Is your check engine light on? If so read the codes as a next step, a noise like this should set a knock sensor nuts. Post all codes found, Autozone will read them free.
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Saturday, October 16th, 2010 AT 12:42 AM
Tiny
DR. HAGERTY
  • MEMBER
So, where are we on this issue?
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Tuesday, October 19th, 2010 AT 4:36 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
Don't know Doc, been a few days and no new posts, maybe it's fixed, or blew up?
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Tuesday, October 19th, 2010 AT 10:29 PM
Tiny
SWALSH152
  • MEMBER
I sprayed some TB cleaner under the intake while it was running and there was a slight surge in RPM. I missed a vacuum leak from the CCV. Today I replaced it along with all 4 pertaining hoses (found a damaged & leaking return hose from CCV to oil dipstick). It took 4hrs, not hard but tight work area. Now the car purrs like a kitten. The knocking is gone and the car runs strong. No more codes. I'm very happy.
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Thursday, October 21st, 2010 AT 9:58 PM
Tiny
DR. HAGERTY
  • MEMBER
We try to help as best as we can. Sometimes we guess, sometimes we know. Other times the support we give is just moral support. Thanks for giving us the feedback.
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Friday, October 22nd, 2010 AT 12:43 AM
Tiny
SWALSH152
  • MEMBER
Trust me, you guy's did help. I was very close to taking it to an indy and letting them find the prob & fix it. But that would be giving up and no way to end this thread. I'm glad I stuck with it. I learned something. I reckon the car's good for another 100K miles now.
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Friday, October 22nd, 2010 AT 2:21 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
Glad you did to, we all learned something from this one. I work on US makes mostly, never ran into a noise like that from a vacuum leak!
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Saturday, October 23rd, 2010 AT 11:27 AM
Tiny
DR. HAGERTY
  • MEMBER
I learned that the guys I am privileged to work with on our site are truly amazing, and I am humbled.
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Saturday, October 23rd, 2010 AT 12:12 PM

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