PRE-EXISTING ROD BEARING DAMAGE OR NEW DAMAGE CAUSED BY FORGETTING TO ADD OIL DURING OIL CHANGE??
2005 Subaru Legacy
May, 9, 2012 AT 8:44 PM
I test drove a vehicle, did a visual and audio inspection and then bought the vehicle. Drove it on the Highway with no problems. 2 days later drove it on the highway with no problems and had the oil changed. Drove it half a mile to get an alignment, after which, I started it and I heard a slight knocking. I brought back to the people who changed the oil, and they changed the oil again but the knocking continued. I Asked the mechanic what he thought it was and he responded that it sounded like a bottom knock. He then explained it by telling me it sounded like a rod bearing had spun. I asked him if it was OK to drive because I didn't live close? He said YES but I would have to take it easy. I went 5 miles or so and the knocking increased 10 fold and the engine performance degraded badly so I STOPPED on the side of the road and shut it down. I had a auto shop inspect and they found very worn bearings for cylinder 1 and 2 (see pics) and damage to the journal on the #2 cylinder (no pic). The mechanic said this was a result of the engine being run with NO OIL.
A insurance inspector disagreed with my mechanic and said the damage was pre existing by the journal damage he saw, because of the metal flaking in the oil pan(see pic) and no colorization to the damaged journal. The inspector also noted the oil screen was clean.
My mechanic said there would have been some kind of signs of that kind of damage before hand and it would have been heard. He also stated that the metal flaking in the oil pan would have been caused from a sudden wear down of the bearings and journal. He stated that colorization or burning of the journal is something that would have happened over time and that their was no colorization because the damaged happened abruptly.
NOTE: I've also asked other mechanics at auto shops and they lean towards my mechanics view.
I'll have the block replaced within a week, at which time my mechanic will break down the old block further so we may see the whole crank shaft/ other journals and the other 2 rod bearings. Once this is available to be viewed I will call the insurance company again and have them send an inspector once again. They told me they can't guarantee it won't be the same guy! Great!
-PLEASE HELP! The insurance adjustor for the company who changed my oil (a well known BIG Company) has an opinion that is outweighed so far by other Certified Mechanics. This new block is costing me $4100 (Labor and parts).
Why dont you just buy a used engine? By the sounds of it, there may have been prior damage covered up by using oil thickeners to increase pressure and reduce noticeable noise. In other words, when the previous owner heard a tap starting, he added thickeners and then sold car. You changed oil to normal viscosity which allowed damage to increase rapidly ruining parts. Just my theory
May, 9, 2012 AT 9:07 PM
Thanks for your reply.
The adding of oil thickeners was asked by me to the mechanics I spoke to, and I researched it as well. In some cases adding oil thickeners can leave sludge which would be evident in the engine, oil pan and oil screen. There was no evidence of that. It could have been flushed of course? I'm not saying I trust the person I bought it from, I'm just trying to do a thorough investigation.
A used engine with 78,000 miles is around $4200 delivered not including the labor to put it in the car. I looked at that option as well.
By the way, do you think it is possible that forgetting to add oil would cause the damage?
May, 9, 2012 AT 10:44 PM
The price for that used motor is way, way out of line. You should shop around for a better price.
May, 10, 2012 AT 7:34 PM
When you say forgetting to add oil, when would that have happened? You weren't present during oil change? I mean yes no oil pressure/lack of oil would cause that problem. If engine was started and it knocked because of no oil, it's whether the person who started immediately shut it off or not could determine amount of damage.
May, 11, 2012 AT 11:58 PM
Yes 'fixitmr' when I say " forgetting to add the oil" that is what I meant. As to how that happened I must ask you this. You do realize that there are businesses that have waiting rooms for customers don't you? You do realize that these businesses have signs posted that state "Due to insurance policies customers are not allow unescorted access to the garage"?
I do realize I pay no money for advice on this website, but when I have people with the word expert in parenthesis after their names replying to me with closed minded replies I see why it's free? I mean no disrespect but give me a break. Am I to stare at the oil changer? Am I to watch every move as they balance or rotate my tires? Flush my transmission or brake fluid?
Sometimes it's nice not to change my own oil, which was the case here! I had a BIG name Auto Center change my oil without me watching and then my engine starts knocking, I am simply asking the panel of "experts" if it is possible to destroy my rod bearings and journals on my crankshaft IF. The oil was not added, until it was realized after the fact? It is possible to be forgotten, it was a human doing it. I did receive 1 reply about the heavy weight oil and additives which I did appreciate, for the record.
Don't bother replying at this point, it's obvious that the initial question has been overlooked so I do not want to inconvenience anyone any further by confusing them any longer with the price of engines or oil changing attendance.
FINAL THOUGHT, I wonder if anyone bothered to look at the photos I uploaded? There were only 2 yes, but 2 is more than 0.
-Take care Grease Monkeys
May, 12, 2012 AT 12:13 AM
If you used a big name center, do you know if they have camera? If they did, you would be able to watch beginning to end. I worked for one and often reviewed the camera to verify a lot of things. It is always possible that they forgot to put the oil in or the filter could have been double gasketed and leaked out the oil.
I just dont think a incident like that would be enough to destry the rod journals. It would do rod bearing damage but to damage the journals would require a lot more time without oil or lower oil pressure.
Sorry you dont think much of us, but we all are very talented and know what we are talking about. You want answers we cannot provide without being there, examining the damage and performing our own testing. It is not easy diaging over the internet. Insulting us does not help either. We never dis respected you and we tried to help.
May, 12, 2012 AT 12:37 AM
If he forgot the oil the light or gauge or chime would have warned u.U drove it and none of these warning happened?