Engine dies

Tiny
GINGERKINS16
  • 2005 SCION TC
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • MANUAL
  • 74,000 MILES

What is the problem if my engine dies while driving and it will turn over but no ignition will be achieved

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 4:02 AM

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Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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There are a great deal of possibilities. Let me know a few things and I will help you eliminate some posibilities and start diagnosing the source.
Has the car been in any accidents or had any repairs or service done recently?
Is the problem occurring more often or are the times between it happening random?
When you say there is no ignition, have you checked for sprak when the car has stalled?
If not, the next time it stalls, pull a plug and put it in its plug wire and then sit the plug so the threaded part touches bare metal on the engine. Careful not to put it near any fuel lines, etc.
When the car stalls, does it have to sit a certain amount of time before it will re-start or does it take different lengths of time for it to run again?
Let me know and I will watch this post for your replay and get back to you ASAP.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 4:12 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
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No accidents, I did replace the water pump about three weeks ago. It is not a re-occurring problem because the car has not started since it died. It will turn over but nothing will actually start. I believe I have coils for ignition I was told not to take those out.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 4:17 AM
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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When you replaced the water pump did the timing belt have to be removed and replaced?

Yes, your ignition is a "coil over" type ignition where every spark plug has its own coil. You do not want to completly remove them but it is okay to remove the bolt that retains the coil, pull it off gently and theis will allow you to remove the spark plug. You will need the proper size spark plug socket which is special becasue it has rubber in it to hold the spark plug so you can pull it out of the plug well when removing and replacing it. The coils are expensive so be careful and only do 1 at a time so the order does not get messed up. Do take care but don't be afraid. However, using caution when you aren't sure is a good thing.
Let me know tha above and I wioll reply ASAP.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 4:30 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
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I am not sure if the timing belt needed to be replaced I can tell you that I did not replace it nor am I familiar with how to. I do not have the tools to pull off the spark plug where I am now so I will have to get back to you tomorrow, is there an email I can reach you personally?

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 4:47 AM
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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I keep the link to posts that I am working with. So, all you need to do is reply to this link again and I will be notified and will reply ASAP.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 4:58 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
  • MEMBER

How would my timing belt be affected by me changing the water pump and not replacing the water pump

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 5:22 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
  • MEMBER

And not replacing the timing belt at the same time?

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 5:28 AM
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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I cannot recall if the Toyota motor has the timing belt driving the water pump or not. It is generally the set up on Toyotas and Hondas that way.
When the timing belt gets messed with, the top dead center can get lost and then the valves can get damaged or the cam timing thrown off to where compression is low and the motor does not want to run.
Just want to eliminate all possibilities as we go through sources that are casuing the problem.
Another thought, since the water pump was replaced, did it fail due to the anti-freeze not being serviced and corrosion got it?
Do you know why the pump failed or can you tell me what you found when it was replaced, e.G, rust corrosion, etc?
Did the car sit for a while without running?
If not, did it run well before the pump was replaced or did it run fine for a while after the pump was changed?
The Scion is a great car and with the mileage being less than 100,000, there is something that is probably a side casualty of the same problem that caused the water pump to fail.
If it sat, was wrecked or the anti-freeze was not changed and it damaged the water pump. These are good clues into the reason the car is not running. Also, the old saying, "Don't fix it unless its broke" has ruined my day so many times. It is very true becasue there are so many times that I have tried to work on something and ended up breaking or damaging somehting else while working on the original problem I wished I had never touched it. Just the nature of the beast.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 5:47 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
  • MEMBER

While I was replacing it it did not see any correlation between the timing belt and the pump. I have been driving it for a solid two and a half weeks since I replaced the pump, has run just fine. The seals on the pulley side of the pump were allowing coolant to leak from there. No rust or corrosion around the pump when removed. Do you know if the scion has an interference or non interference engine I cant get a straight answer on google.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 6:09 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
  • MEMBER

The pump is driven by the serpentine belt, that is the only belt I had to remove in order to replace the pump

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 6:14 AM
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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I I am pretty sure the V6 is non-I and most Toyota 4cylinders are non-I. The JA, which I think shares the most with your motor, is a Non_interference. Toyota is a good company and it seems they tend towards the safety of Non-Integerence shut down.
Getting near 80,000 is probably a good time to look into it. I have seen people go farther.
So, that eleiminates a lot of things.
I am starting to think fuel management at this point. Maybe the fuel pump/main relay is starting to fail. The thing about electrical parts is that they fail gradually and totally. The behaviour of your prolem was total failure all at once. Right?
So, if you can pull the plugs to check if number 1, they are getting wet with gas when yopu crank the motor over and 2 there is spark. That will be worth buying a plug wrench. To make sure you get the right size, ask for your local parts store to get you the cheapest plug for your car and then make sure the plug socket fits. They are usually 16mm. Or you can always go ahead and get a set of NGK replacements.
Let me know what happens and I help as much as I can.

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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 AT 7:28 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
  • MEMBER

Well you were right about fuel management and it turned out ten times easier than I made it out to be. The EFI fuse had blown. I quick replaced that and started right up. Thank you for all your help though I really appreciate it

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Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 AT 2:01 PM
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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That is fantastic. I am glad it was so simple.
I really like the Scion. The new one really looks cool from the side. The support for bolt on performance is un-real. The TRD supercharger is such a nice piece.
Are you familiar with Chris Rado who drag races and now road races Scion TCs?
Last year he dominated with a Scion that was nearly a stock bottom end and a ton of boost. The neat thing was that it had a front wing that sat on supports that put the wing level with the rear wing. If you haven't seen it you gotta google it. The Scion this year has a front wing, but mounted just above the front splitter.

Anyway. Gald I could help.
If you need anything else don't hesitate to let me know.

Dr C

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Thursday, November 25th, 2010 AT 12:11 AM
Tiny
GINGERKINS16
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Yes I read many an article on that tc it is an awesome car I absolutely love it. The supercharger is awesome However I just need someone to rebuild a jackshaft for it and upgrade the bearings because mine blew. However my fuse blew again, indicating now I have something most likely a fuel pump drawing too much power causing a re-occurring blowout mostly when I am in the middle of a verys busy intersection

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Tuesday, November 30th, 2010 AT 7:29 AM
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
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Sorry to hear the fuse blew.
In regards to your jackshaft, are you referring to an axle?
The terminology can get confusing, so I want to make sure I am on the same page. If you are looking for good axles, Yonaka makes the best replacement that I know of. Then if you are stepping up horsepower, Hasport makes axles that handle 200HP and have a 1 year warranty. The DriveShaft shop has same but no warranty. They ar both around $300 for the Hasport/DriveSS and the Yonakas are $150 or so. I purchased mine through HorsePower Freaks. They have a good price/shipping cost. Some sites have really cheap prices, like Andy's Auto Sport, then the shipping and handling is outrageous. In the end, the days of finding E-Bay price deals are gone. If you do find somewhere that is too cheap to be true, it's usually customer service that suffers. Horsepower freaks give great advice and great follow up support. I also use Summit Racing if I can get the part I need through them. They are the first place I check as the price and service for replacement/warranty/exchnage is unbeatable. Tech service for imports is tough, ask for Carson if you use Summit and dropping my name might not hurt if you get the right person when you call.
Anyway, back to your fuel pump issue. The fuse for EFI should also power 1 or 2 solenoids that are emissions related. The EVAP and Fuel Pressure control Solenoid draw a small amount of the current, keep that in mind as we work through this.
I think the fact that the issue is happening while at idle may bring them into play as the fuel pump demads more ampergae at higher RPMs and would more likely blow the fuse then if it were the problem.
If you look at the vaccumm hose diagram inder your hood, the EVAP and regulator are part of the vaccumm circuit. While you are looking at this diagram, note other emission item that require amperage and may be on the same electrical circuit as I do not have a wiring diagram for your car. Look for damaged wiring from the emmissions parts that are related to the IDLE AIR CONTROL valve, EVAP, FUEL PRESSURE REG. Solenoid, and EGR. It is not impossible but unlikely that any of these can get so clogged or have a vaccumm leak that it would cause the fuse to blow. If it is sharing the fuse with the pump. If you don't have one, a Chilton's manual form Advance or the Autozone is about $30 and good enough to provide wiring diagrams so we can see exactly what else is on the fuse that keeps blowing.
Also, I think the fuel pump is an in tank type with a pre-filter that is the, "sock or screen" type and cannot be serviced without removing tank. However, I am not sure that you do not have another servicable fuel filter. A clogged filter will cause idle and performance problems, but it also puts a strain on the pump.
The mileage on your car is so low that I would look into other stuff as much as possible since it is something that does not tend to fail unless there is a wiring issue or something else that has put it under strain. Has it ever had any modifications like a turbo?
Also, you are not the original owner?
Sorry if I am asking questions twice if I am. The new site set-up makes it hard to track between poat and PM dialogue so I can't keep track of all inofmation without going back and forth between the 2.
I really would like to eliminate all other possibilities before you replace the pump. It is not easy to do and I have rarely seen one faill so early without something else being a contributing to the reason it failed. Meaning, I would hate to have you replace it and then the new one fail because something was overlooked that was the root cause of the pump failing.
Let me know what you find woth the vaccumm diagram and if you get a Chiltons or you might get lucky and find something posted on a Scion forum or elsewhere on the net. The pump does get hot at idle as fuel is its' coolant. If there is a problem that is allowing the armerture to **** of center, it will be worse at slower speeds and the lower flow of fuel both cab lead to the pump getting hotter and the heat makes the whole issue worse and cause a higher amp draw. I will keep an eye out for your reply.

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Wednesday, December 1st, 2010 AT 5:35 AM

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