Transmission issues

Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
One possibility that I did not mention is this. Because Chrysler's so-called limp mode puts the transmission into second gear, if there is a clutch problem with second gear, the vehicle will act like it is in neutral because the emergency gear the system chooses is slipping! So maybe you have a good first gear (fifteen mph), then it shifts to second which slips, and the TCM detects the slippage, then forces the transmission to remain in the slipping gear. So here is a suggestion. Start the vehicle and let it warm up, at least for five minutes (engine not cold). Select first gear (and keep it there). Does it continue to go in first gear? Then stop and try reverse. Does it go in reverse? Go back to first on the gear selector. Traffic permitting, accelerate rapidly to about thirty five mph move the gear selector quickly to neutral (but definitely not reverse), take your foot off the accelerator, then select third gear before the speed falls below twenty five mph. Does the vehicle continue to go in third gear? I have driven Chrysler vehicles like that in the past, and once you get past second gear, the vehicle will drive okay, until it has to downshift for lack of speed or adequate acceleration. Please post your results.
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Tuesday, June 21st, 2011 AT 3:47 PM
Tiny
BJOHNSON1423
  • MEMBER
I disconnected one of the transmission lines it is pumping fine no problems. Are there any other suggestions?
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Friday, June 24th, 2011 AT 5:06 PM
Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
On June 19, 2011, Docfixit said, "Codes indicate internal fault line pressure loss. Need to have towed to transmission shop have pressure checked and diagnosed to determine repair and cost." But your fluid pumping test just proved that the fluid is, in fact, being pumped (but the internal pressures are still unknown at this time). The most recent post that I made on June 24th about your situation, gave a procedure to verify if the transmission is slipping as a result of defaulting into limp mode, just after shifting into second gear. The procedure was intended to prevent the vehicle from trying to use second gear at all (by skipping it altogether), but it appears that either you did not try that procedure, or you did not post any results or comments if you did try it. It was also intended to verify that the vehicle will constantly pull if forced to remain in low gear (marked L on the gear selector, not first). It was also intended to verify that R (reverse) would also continue to move the vehicle, if used before the vehicle ever attempted to shift to second gear (which is not marked as one of the choices on the gear selector). If you made any or all of those tests, please post your results. If you do not want to do any of those tests, then I am at a loss as to how to help you determine the exact problem(s) with your van.
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Saturday, June 25th, 2011 AT 8:54 PM
Tiny
BJOHNSON1423
  • MEMBER
Gizmoguy, I took the van out like you said still no reverse or second, but when bypassing second gear it runs fine I got up to fifty five to sixty no problem. So what does that tell you now? I hope it is not bad news. Thank you for your help.
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Tuesday, June 28th, 2011 AT 10:38 PM
Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
Sorry for the delay, but I have not been on a computer for a couple of days. The test you made (skipping second gear and going straight to third) has proven to me that the sequence happening when you just put the vehicle in "D" (drive/overdrive) is this: The vehicle starts out in L (low, AKA first), attempts a normal shift to second gear (at about fifteen mph), but then the system immediately detects second gear slippage (flagged as a gear ratio error because of input and output sensor ratio differences). Second gear is the so-called limp mode default gear in Chrysler A604 and 41TE transmissions, so when the TCM detects second gear slippage, it sets error code(s) in the computer, and forces the system to stay in second gear a gear that slips. We still need more tests to determine what else (if anything) may be wrong with your transmission. You already know how to go from first to third, skipping second. Do that test again, but thirty five mph may be a bit too fast for first gear, so only accelerate to about twenty seven to twenty eight mph in L before going to neutral, then back to third. Verify that the transmission is not slipping in third gear, then when you get up to around forty five to fifty mph, shift to D (drive/overdrive), and see if it slips in that forward gear. If all else is well, you should be able to drive at Interstate highway speeds in drive/overdrive. Stop the vehicle in a place where you could easily back the vehicle up in reverse, then park and turn it off. Disconnect the (possibly very warm) TCM cable for about an hour. Then reconnect the TCM cable. Start the vehicle and put the gear selector into R (reverse and no other gear!). Does it go in reverse under those conditions without slipping? Post your results and we can proceed further from that point.
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Wednesday, June 29th, 2011 AT 10:12 PM
Tiny
BJOHNSON1423
  • MEMBER
Gizmoguy, I took the van out this morning and started out in first got up to twenty five mph shifted to neutral then shifted to third no slipping in third accelerated up to forty five mph still no slippage then shifted to drive the transmission shuddered for about one second then slipped and quit pulling. Returned home repeating the sequence again with the same result. It will not even pull in low you have to shut it off and start all over again. I disconnected the TCM it was not even hot, not even warm. Left it disconnected for about an hour then reconnected it started it put it in reverse nothing. Still no reverse.
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Thursday, June 30th, 2011 AT 8:03 PM
Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
Thank you for performing those tests and posting the results. Here is a bit more useful information for you, based on my experience with the transmission you have in your van. When you shifted into D and it shuddered and then quit pulling, it had already set an error code and automatically locked itself into limp mode, which is second gear, and since second gear slips, the van quit pulling altogether. There is a 2/4 clutch in your transmission, which serves both gears. Neither second nor fourth gear works properly in your vehicle. So the 2/4 clutch is under preliminary suspicion of being defective. However, the other shared clutch in your transmission is L/R (low/reverse). Low apparently works okay, but reverse does not. That is a highly unusual situation. Based on these observations, you could have a wiring (electrical cable) problem from the TCM to the solenoid pack. A defective TCM could produce the same result. Based on the (relatively low) mileage on the transmission (164,000 miles), I seriously doubt that your problem was caused by internal mechanical failure. My 1996 Dodge Grand Caravans both went over 230,000 miles without major transmission problems, but then the only fluids I ever used in them were ATF+3 and ATF+4. The fluid type(s) in your vehicle are still unknown to me. I do know, that, based on information you can find on Allpar. Com about the A604 and 41TE automatic transmissions, using Dextron fluid in them can ruin them, because the clutch lining on the friction disks will come apart and very possibly clog up critical fluid passages (such as those that the solenoid pack directs fluid through, in the various gears).

The best way to unravel the exact problem a this point, is to find a transmission shop that has a direct select substitution box with which very.
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Friday, July 1st, 2011 AT 4:17 PM
Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
There are two shared clutch assemblies in your four speed automatic transmission. There is a L/R (low/reverse) clutch assembly. Low apparently works okay, but not reverse. Highly unusual! There is also a 2/4 clutch assembly, and neither one works. You said you replaced the solenoid pack, so I am assuming it was replaced with a new one. If your transmission fluid is at the normal level, and not low at all, and 100% of that fluid consists of ATF+3, ATF+4, or Chrysler 7176, or any transmission fluid, the most likely problem you have is either a defective TCM, or defective wiring, or possibly defective input speed and/or output speed sensors, and/or their wiring. But if the fluid is a mix that contains 20% or more of Dextron fluid, you are facing a major rebuild, because the clutch (fiber) material is disintegrating as I am writing this. However, if your transmission fluid contains Mercon but no Dextron, a complete flush and refill (including the correct Mopar filter and not an aftermarket filter, which seldom meet Chrysler specifications), there is a good possibility your will not have to remove the transmission from the vehicle.
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Friday, July 1st, 2011 AT 4:43 PM
Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
Four times today alone, system glitches have caused an abrupt end to my editing sessions on this forum. Perhaps the problems were caused by solar flares that I have recently read about, or perhaps the problems were due to simple Internet congestion. I have no way of finding out the exact cause(s). To continue a previous post that interrupted earlier today (without notice, warning, or defined cause), please read the following:

The best way to unravel the exact problem(s) at this point, is to find a transmission shop that has a direct select substitution box with which every gear can be independently and individually selected on your van, completely bypassing the TCM and the input and output speed sensors. If the shop will allow it, ride with them so you can see and feel the test results. If they will not let you ride with them, try to find a shop that will allow it! Be very cautious! Although fortunately, there are many good exceptions, generally speaking, the best way that you can tell if a repair shop is lying to you, is look and see is that person's mouth moving? Good luck!
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+1
Friday, July 1st, 2011 AT 5:01 PM
Tiny
LGHEXPAT
  • MEMBER
What great information! We just bought a 2002 Chrysler Town and Country with 125,000 miles on it after trying life with an SUV and determining it was way too small for us. We have returned to mini-van life and are loving it. We would like to avoid the transmission issues that plagued our last Chrysler mini-van, so, taking in all the maintenance issues you have talked about above. The transmission has been replaced once at around 85,000 miles. Any other maintenance tips to share?
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Wednesday, July 20th, 2011 AT 12:35 PM
Tiny
GIZMOGUY
  • MEMBER
Lghexpat, thanks for the compliment, but if you like somebody's answer(s) on this forum, the correct way to convey your satisfaction is to rate the answer(s)!

Regarding maintenance tips on your Chrysler four speed automatic transmission, I find it amazing but true, that most"would be" mechanics (that have little formal training or are totally unscientific in their approaches to repair and/or maintenance tasks), generally have a "look-a likes are fine" attitude. They are all out to get you, and destroy your transmission(s). To put that in real world terms, the next time you go to bake a cake, if the recipe calls for vegetable oil, use motor oil instead. That should work just fine because they look so similar at room temperature, right? Wrong! Apply that scenario to using incorrect transmission fluids in Chrysler A604 or 41TE four speed automatics. The transmission will react the same way you would, to the motor oil-based cake. It will get really sick really fast. So, how has the general public (who own those own and operate those transmissions) reacted? They insist that it should not matter what fluid they put in their transmissions, and if they cannot find the right fluid (or it is too much more expensive, or they have to go somewhere other than a grocery store or pharmacy to buy it), then "they" (including many so-called "professional mechanics") will put in anything within reach. Dextron is usually what they use, without even checking a manual! That has ruined countless Chrysler A604 and 41TE transmissions, and Chrysler got a very undeserved bad reputation because of countless people who did not know what to use, so just guessed at it. So, here you go, enjoy a big piece of motor oil cake. If you cannot find the right transmission fluid, try liquid soap, or maybe a lot of bacon grease. Those feel kind of slick too, so why would they not work just as well as the fluids that the owners manuals recommend? The bottom line is, IF you are having your vehicle serviced anywhere but a Chrysler dealer or authorized service center, watch what they put into your transmission, and demand that they give you the empty containers that you paid for. Never let anyone put anything in your transmission that was not in a sealed, factory-labeled container. If you recently got your vehicle and you do not know for a fact that 100% of the fluid in your transmission is ATF+3 or ATF+4 or Chrysler 7176, or any combination of only those three fluids, then immediately have the fluid and filter(s) changed (hurry, but do not get a speeding ticket on the way to the shop) and have the whole system power flushed by correctly using the appropriate transmission flushing equipment. You must assume that the wrong fluid is in the system, unless you have documentation and videos showing the mechanic breaking the seal on factory marked containers of the appropriate fluid(s). If you did not witness the seal breaking, then assume the container was re-used and it had something else in it, such as soda pop. Hope for the best, but assume the worst, and act accordingly, to protect your investment in your vehicle.
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+2
Friday, July 29th, 2011 AT 12:55 AM

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