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Water coolant pump installed correctly, but not being turned.

Tiny
SIR_JIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 CHEVROLET CAVALIER
  • 220,000 MILES
My 2003 Cavalier, 2.2L 4-cylinder ecotec (VIN with an 'F'), automatic is overheating. I've done a number of things to troubleshoot including replacing the water pump, but I still have the same issues. All indications are that there is no flow of coolant through the coolant system. Today, I opened the access port to the water pump sprocket and started the engine. To my surprise the water pump is not being turned, because I don't see the sprocket turning through the port, however the engine itself is runs fine (apart from eventually overheating). I felt the sprocket before I started the engine, and it felt securely mounted to the water pump with the chain going around the sprocket as it seems it should. This appears to be what the problem was all along -- that the old water pump was not being turned either.

My questions are, why is my water pump not being turned, what could cause this to happen (or not happen), and how can I fix it? I thought the water pump was driven by the timing chain, but yet the car runs fine -- in fact it seems to run better, since it has started to overheat. Wouldn't the car run more roughly or not at all if the timing chain were broken?
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 4:37 PM

14 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,133 POSTS
Take a look at the pictures I attached. Let me know which one you have.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 4:52 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
You need to remove the belt and check the pump pully it should turn easy. The new pump cant be locked up and its not the same problem with both. If the pully was locked up the belt would be squeeling and smoking.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 5:02 PM
Tiny
SIR_JIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Mine is like the first image.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 5:05 PM
Tiny
SIR_JIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
@Jacobandnickolas, in fact the circular cover with the 4 bolts in your first picture is the access port cover I removed. The smaller sprocket it covers shown in the picture is what I felt to check that it was securely mounted to the water pump.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,133 POSTS
That is interesting. The belt has to be turning the pulley or it would be making noise. Since the engine is running, we know the belt is good. Take a look at the following remove and replace directions to see if there is anything that stands out to you. Honestly, there isn't much to mess up.

2. If equipped with an automatic transmission, remove the exhaust manifold.
3. Drain the cooling system.
4. Remove the right front tire.
5. Remove the front fender liner.
6. Remove the access plate on the water pump sprocket from the timing cover.
7. Install water pump holding tool J 43651 to the water pump sprocket.
8. Use the access plate bolts to secure the pump holding tool to the engine front cover.
9. Remove the bolts that secure the sprocket to the water pump.
10. Remove the bolt attaching the engine block to the water pump.
11. Remove the bolt attaching the engine front cover to the water pump.
12. Remove the feed pipe that joins the thermostat housing to the water pump.
13. Remove the 2 bolts that secure the water pump to the engine block.
14. Remove the water pump.

To install:

1. Use a threaded stud in the hub to align the hub to the water pump sprocket.
2. Install the water pump.

NOTE
Make sure to use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number.

3. Install the 2 bolts that secure the water pump to the engine block and tighten to 15 ft. Lbs. (20 Nm).
4. Install the feed pipe that joins the thermostat housing to the water pump.
5. Install the engine front cover bolt and the bolt that attaches the engine block to the water pump. Torque the bolts to 15 ft. Lbs. (20 Nm)
6. Install 2 of the bolts that secure the water pump sprocket to the water pump.
7. Remove the threaded stud.
8. Install the last bolt and tighten to 89 inch lbs. (10 Nm).
9. Remove the holding tool.
10. Install the access plate on the water pump sprocket to the timing cover.
11. Install the bolts that secure the access plate to the timing cover. Torque the bolts to 89 inch lbs. (10 Nm) on 2002-04 models or 62 inch lbs. (7 Nm) on 2005 models.
12. Install the front fender liner and wheel.
13. If equipped with an automatic transmission, install the exhaust manifold.
14. Fill the cooling system.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
Son of a gun. This waterpump has no belt it runs off the timing chain new one on me. Am I seeing this right jandn.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 10:20 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Cadieman, as often as they change things, it is hard to keep up. Please add your help. It's appreciated.
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Saturday, October 1st, 2011 AT 11:18 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
It appears to bolt to the camshaft sprocket. It has to be spinning its running?He has done something wrong. Its in the fasteners or something isnt aligned right.
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 1:25 AM
Tiny
SIR_JIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I did more research. It turns out there are actually two chains. One chain, the primary, drives the cam shafts, and the other drives the oil pump, balancing shafts, and the water pump. I think I just need to pull the cover off and see what's going on with that secondary chain. I suspect either that secondary chain has broken, or the shear pin on the driving gear has broken. But, the fact that there are two chains explains why the car can run perfectly fine without the chain driving the water pump.

@Jacobandnickolas, I looked over the instructions you posted. I think we pulled our instructions from the same source. Step one which was omitted from the first part of your post reads, "1. Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the precautions section." The page is glitchy, and step one displays on top of the heading which reads, "2.2L (VIN F) Engine".

These are the instructions I followed to replace the water pump. I only deviated from these steps in two ways. First, instead of the tool J 43651, I used a tool made by Lisle -- 13800, which looks like the J 43651 tool but cut in half. Second, I didn't have a torque wrench, so I just took note of how much force I used to break the bolts loose and guesstimated how much force to use when tightening.

The Lisle tool also came with instructions on how to replace the pump. The upshot of the Lisle instructions was that you should ensure the pump housing is securely fastened to the engine before tightening the sprocket bolts.

Replacing the pump, like you said, was straight-forward, and there were no issues during the replacement.

With this new information, I consider my questions answered. Thank you Jacobandnickolas and cadieman. Your responses were quick, professional, and relevant. I have come across this site many times while troubleshooting and have found the posts to be very helpful -- especially the pictures.
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 1:29 AM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
If the oil pump wasnt running you would know it. The oil light would be on and engine would be knocking.I dont think the chain is broken.I think you need to recheck the instalation and check it and see it turning before you replace the cover. Dont run it to long youll damage the sprocket.
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 2:31 AM
Tiny
SIR_JIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
@cadieman, you're right. I've been thinking about that, I would definitely notice if the oil pump wasn't running. I took a second look at the place where I found that info, and it looks like the guy wrote oil pump when he meant to write water pump. I took a closer look at the diagram for installing the secondary chain, and it drives two balancing sprockets and the water pump sprocket. So, I was wrong when I said it drove the oil pump.
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 3:08 AM
Tiny
SIR_JIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
As far as the installation of the water pump goes, I believe it's installed correctly. That was the reason I removed the cover today, to check the installation and verify proper operation of the pump. I think the fact that it is not turning was the root cause of the engine overheating in the first place, although I can't verify that now.
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 3:23 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,133 POSTS
Hay:
We're glad to help. The tool you used made by lisle, is better than the original one mentioned. So I feel confident you got it right. The chain has something to do with it. We'll be here if you have other questions.

Take care, and good luck,

Joe AKA jacobandnickolas
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 3:37 AM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
Remove the pump and the coil wire and have someone crank the motor over whyll you watch the chain to see if its turning if possible.I reserched the water pump and can only find a pump like the second picture.
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Sunday, October 2nd, 2011 AT 5:18 PM

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