Stops in traffic and stop lights

Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 KIA RIO
  • 1.5L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 146,000 MILES
Hello JACOBANDNICKOLAS. Remember me, panmike. Well, back again with my same idle problems in traffic and at stop signs with my vehicle. Just very frustrating. Every mechanic wants to change the spark plugs, now one said the 02 sensor is bad and also spark plugs. Tired of bad mechanics here in Panama. Please help if you can. Thanks. Mike
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Friday, December 21st, 2018 AT 5:27 PM

45 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi Mike and welcome back:

Can you remind me what was already done? Also, is there a misfire or checking light staying on?

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, December 21st, 2018 AT 8:48 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Hi, Joe, thanks for welcome back but really don't want to be here. Smile. Yes, Engine Check light is always on. A recent mechanic of a long list of mechanics said it has several sensor problems; oxygen sensor, water sensor, crank sensor, and they changed crank sensor for one in my trunk, and changed spark plugs from NGK to Denso. But, they were getting expensive so I asked for my car back. It starts great, runs great but then when it gets warm it tries to stop in traffic and at stop lights. Thanks for any help at all. Mike
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Saturday, December 22nd, 2018 AT 6:07 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Hi Mike:

Honestly, it sounds like it could be related to the coolant temp sensor. Basically, the sensor tells the computer the coolant's actual temperature. Based on that info, the computer determines what fuel/air ratio is needed. Here is denotative description of the sensor.

_____________________

Engine coolant temperature sensor
The Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor provides an input voltage to the ECM relating to coolant temperature. The ECM uses this input signal along with inputs from other sensors to determine injector pulse width and ignition timing. As coolant temperature varies the ECT Sensor's resistance changes. The change in resistance results in a different input voltage to the ECM. When the engine is cold, the ECM will operate in Open Loop cycle. It will demand slightly richer air/fuel mixtures and higher idle speeds until normal temperatures are reached.

____________________

Basically the same as what I said but with a lot of technical jargon. Lol With that in mind, if the computer thinks the temp is too cold, it will change injection timing and air fuel ratio. For example, if the coolant is 195 Degree F and the computer thinks it's -40 degrees F, it will make the mixture too rich (too much gas and not enough air) causing the engine to run poorly or stall. Considering that, it will also lead to other codes such as misfire (new plugs), O2 sensor faults and so on.

___________________

What to do.
The easiest way to check if that is the case is by using a live data scanner. With the scanner, one can actually see what the sensor is telling the computer and determine if it is correct or not.

Also, the sensor can be tested to see if it is good by checking checking resistance. Basically, you take the sensor, place it in a specified temperature liquid and check if it provides the correct resistance. (See pictures 1 and 2)

__________________

If I was there, I could check it for you in under five minutes, but. Also, if you have access to a live data scanner, check the sensor's readings when the problem is happening. When it is cold, the system runs in what is called a closed loop and the readings may be a false positive.

Based on everything you mentioned, I have a feeling this is causing the problem. However, I could be and have been wrong in the past. Lol But this is my first suspect.

Let me know if this helps. And by the way, I understand you would rather not have to be here for obvious reasons. LOL However, it's nice to hear from you again.

Take care and have a great Christmas.

Joe
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Saturday, December 22nd, 2018 AT 11:51 AM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Thank you very much, Joe. I wrote to you this time because you always go into lots of great detail, and it helps immensely. Sure appreciate it. Joe, I don't have a scanner and also I will probably have to wait until after Christmas to get much done, but I will check those things you have mentioned one of these days and get back with you. Merry Christmas to you and your family and have a great new year. Mike in Panama
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Saturday, December 22nd, 2018 AT 6:23 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
You are very welcome and I will watch for your reply.

Merry Christmas to my friend in Panama.

Joe
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Saturday, December 22nd, 2018 AT 7:41 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Hey, Joe. Hope you and your family had a great Christmas, we did. My 2002 Kia Rio is worse now. A mechanic ran a scan for $25.00 and said it had three codes. Didn't tell me the numbers but said one was crankshaft code, camshaft code, and oxygen sensor code. He changed the spark plugs from NGK to Denso, and when I got it back it still would shut off in traffic after getting warm. Oh, he didn't change any of the sensors mentioned before. However, two other mechanics came to work on the car to change the valve cover because it was leaking oil near the belt for the alternator and so they stopped that but with a silicon seal. Also, they sprayed the throttle body and also the IAC valve. Took a while to crank with the spray in IAC but then took off good, but eventually when motor got warm started idling bad and shut off several times so they turned the little screw by the throttle body and at first got better then started crapping out worse. They had spent most of the day on the car out looking for used parts for the IACV and valve cover, and so I told them to go home and we will try later in the week or tomorrow or sometime. That's where we are, Joe. Nothing good to report. Mike
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Thursday, December 27th, 2018 AT 4:21 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Mike:
Thanks for getting back to me. I wish you had better news, but feel you are on the right track.

However, bad crankshaft or camshaft position sensor could be the problem. Have they further diagnosed those codes? Often times a crankshaft position sensor will cause a stalling as they warm up. What happens is the copper wiring in the sensor will expand as the vehicle gets hot causing a loss of signal. Take a look through this link and let me know your thoughts.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

If I don't hear from you, have a great New Year's

Take care,
Joe

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Thursday, December 27th, 2018 AT 8:59 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Hi, Joe. That crankshaft sensor presentation was very good. Helped me understand more about the system. Thank you. For now it is running so so and getting by, so when it belches I will write more again. Thanks, Joe. Your pal in Panama. Mike
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Thursday, January 3rd, 2019 AT 6:24 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Mike:
Take care and let me know if you run into problems.

Joe
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Thursday, January 3rd, 2019 AT 3:55 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Well, Joe, it is now April, and doing it again. Stalling at signals and in traffic. I changed the IAC Valve and it ran better for 4 days, then back to same old stuff so the e-bay seller is sending me another one, and will get it in a few days. Meanwhile, I changed the temperature sensor and it still stalls after getting warm. Strange problem.
Mike
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Saturday, April 20th, 2019 AT 2:36 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Welcome back, Mike:

When you remove the IAC, make sure it is clean inside where it mounts. If there is anything blocking the airway, it will cause the stalling.

Now the warmer temps still have me confused. Has the check engine light ever come on?

Joe
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Saturday, April 20th, 2019 AT 5:15 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Hi, Joe, welcome back. Yes, Joe, the engine check light is always on for five years now. I have changed a lot of stuff and it never goes out. Only when I disconnect battery for a while and reconnect, but then comes back on after a while. Not much to go on Joe, and I bought a scanner and can't get it to work on this car. It has a plug but says there are 3 codes, but I can't see them. Confused in Panama. Mike
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Sunday, April 21st, 2019 AT 5:44 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Can you upload pictures of the scanner indicating there are codes? I may be able to help you figure it out.

Let me know,
Joe
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Sunday, April 21st, 2019 AT 5:53 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Thanks, Joe. Give me a few days. Mike
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Sunday, April 21st, 2019 AT 6:26 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Not a problem. Take care.

Joe
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Sunday, April 21st, 2019 AT 9:38 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Joe, just checked car for codes, says it has three codes as follows:
P1500 DTC definition not found.
P0740 Torque converter clutch circuit
P0740 Gear 3 incorrect ratio
But, I tried to look at real time when I was driving and could not do it. This is a new Konnwei Scanner, and I have tried everything without much luck. Mike
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Monday, April 22nd, 2019 AT 4:31 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Welcome back:

The P1500 is a speed sensor issue which is most likely causing all the problems related to the transmission. To diagnose the problem, you will have to do some checking. I have attached a diagnostic flow chart related to the code. If you can follow it, great. If you can't, let me know. Also, let me know if there is something on it you can't read.

Take care and let me know what you find.

Joe
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Monday, April 22nd, 2019 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
Hi, Joe. The first thing I noticed on your flow chart is that Number one is bad. My speedometer has not worked for about two years, and a guy I know on the Kia Forum said he had the same problem, same car year, model, and mfg. He found out it was a bad connector going to the speedometer, but I have asked about three mechanics to try and track it down, and none of them has done it or maybe don't want to, don't know. So, that is a problem for sure. Mike
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Tuesday, April 23rd, 2019 AT 6:49 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • EXPERT
Welcome back:

Honestly, I feel confident that is exactly what it is. Are you able to follow the flow chart to determine the cause the speedometer issue?

Let me know.
Joe
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Tuesday, April 23rd, 2019 AT 7:17 PM
Tiny
PANMIKE
  • MEMBER
No, Joe. But, I think it is probably the connector or wires to connector, but that would not cause my idle and engine shutting off in traffic, would it? Mike
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Tuesday, April 23rd, 2019 AT 7:28 PM

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