IM working on a Ford F-150 4X4 5.4 liter Vin L. There are some timing questions that I need answered.

Tiny
NASCARTECHNICAL
  • MEMBER
  • 2000 FORD F-150
  • 275,000 MILES
My first question is I get all the timing marks alinged including the chain. I go to rotate the engine to be sure nothing is hitting and my timing marks on the camshafts and crankshaft are alinged. But not the chain. Both tensioners and chain guides have been replaced. Is that normal? Also while rotation of the engine the LH seems to be ok. The RH seems weird, on the second rotation the LH cam seems like its jumping and the tensioner also collapses. Is this normal. If not what can I do to fix this things to the correct way.
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 12:11 AM

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Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • EXPERT
Once the chain is set and you rotate the motor, the chain will never be the same unless you remove it and start again. As long as the marks are aligned, that is important.

If there is excessive resistance, you may have a valve that is not moving in the guide as easily as it should. I would be very leary about starting it this way till you resolve this. Isolate the rs and find which valve is tight.

By the way, why did you replace the chain?

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 12:25 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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IF YOUR GEAR MARKS ARE LINED UP CORRECTLY----IF YOU ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT EXACTLY 2 REVOLUTIONS THE MARKS WILL LINE RIGHT BACK UP AGAIN. THIS IS HOW 4 STROKE WORKS

WHEN THE PISTONS ARE DOING INTAKE-COMPRESSION-POWER-EXHAUST STROKES THE CAM IS TURNING HALF THE SPEED OF THE CRANK

MAYBE TO ANSWER THE CHAIN PART BETTER---THE CHAIN COULD BE 6 FEET LONG RUNNING OVER MULTIPLE "IDLER GEARS"!---AS LONG AS THE CAM GEAR MARK IS "X" NUMBER OF LINKS FROM THE CRANK GEAR MARK---THE CAM AND CRANK WILL REMAIN IN THE SAME POSITIONS EVER 2 CRANK REVOLUTIONS

SURLY I HAVE YOU MORE CONFUSED NOW. HUH!

THE MEDIC
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 12:42 AM
Tiny
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Medic I understand what ur sayin. As long as the timing marks from the two camshafts and crankshaft are lining up it should be good.
Roy I didnt replace the chain, I just replaced the guides and the two tensioners. And if the cam is doing what your saying roy, then how would I go about fixin it? I did have a complete valve job done. Do you think they installed a valve guide wrong? Also, Why is the new tensioner collapsing like that? Is it partially oil driven as well. So how would I find out why it is hard to turn?
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 12:51 AM
Tiny
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Yes, one of the guides may be too tight. The snaping of the tensioner comes from the additional pressure required to push the valve.

One question, with all that work, why did they not replace the chain?

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 1:11 AM
Tiny
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I did suggest that and they said they had no money left for the timing chain. So, Do you think it will be ok from ur experience as a master ASE. And your saying that the tensioner is ok, it should be doing that or not? Please get back with me and thanks for the answers.
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 1:21 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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I worry with the miles, 275k. The chain is only about 50 bucks.

Anyway, the tensioner is doing its job. It not right that it is doing this. Did you pay to have this work done, especially the valve job?

It sounds like you have a warranty claim here with the shop that did this unless you did it yourself.

I would not put this truck into service till this is resolved.

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 1:32 AM
Tiny
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Yes I did pay to have this valve job done and it wasnt cheap. So what should I do then. Take the heads off again and take it in to the machine shop again? 200 bucks is what I paid. Pressure test and all. He said should be good nothing to worry about. And what can I do about this to find out the prblem? Thanks again
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:13 AM
Tiny
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I would go to him now and tell him the issue and get his opinion. Do this before dis assembling.

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:14 AM
Tiny
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Ok thank you so much I do appreciate this. One more thing, If you were in my shoes and you had been putting the money up for this job ur doing, what would be some of the things that u would do if you didnt want to go back to that shop.
As far as diagnostics for this symptom. And do u think the timing is still out, if this is occurying.
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:22 AM
Tiny
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I would remove the chain, remove the cam and find the valve that is sticking so I know exactly which valve I am looking at and then go back to the machine shop loaded with the information.

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:25 AM
Tiny
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Never done a valve job before, now I did have to torq the caps back down should I try and re torq them. Dont know how to do a valve job really. Not really sure what to look for. And if I took the cam off. Wouldnt the valves fall in the cylinders?
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:30 AM
Tiny
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No, they are held up by the springs. Nothing will fall into the cylinder.

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:43 AM
Tiny
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Ok so I should be able to see the valve stems as soon as I pick up the camshaft out right. And then slide them up and down to find the stcky one.
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:52 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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It wont be that easy. After you remove the cam, you will have to compress the valve manually. One or more will be a lot tuffer than the rest. They are under a lot of pressure so you will have to work at it to get to the bad one.

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 2:58 AM
Tiny
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Ok so I push down on each valve spring manually the one that is the hardest to push down is it then right. And reinstall the caps same way they were pulled correct.
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 3:04 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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The one that is hard, yes that is the one. The head will then have to be removed and the valve guide repaired.

Yes, everything has to go back the way it came off and every bolt has a torque spec.

Roy
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 3:07 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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NOT TRYIN' TO TAKE OVER, JUST HIT ME THAT HE "TORQUED" SOMETHING

ASEMaster6371---YOU SORTA JUDGE WHAT I'M SAYING---DISCREDIT ANYTHINGTHOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE A FACTOR----I ASSUME TOO MANY THINGS TOO! I HAVE ONLY DEALT WITH "REAL CAMS", INSIDE THE BLOCK, NO HANDS ON WITH THE MODERN OVERHEAD BOLT ON TYPE!

I ONCE HAD SOME HELPFUL FRIENDS INSTALL MY REAR MAIN CAP BACKWARDS ON MY JEEP ENGINE WHILE I WENT IN FOR CHOW

WHEN I RETURNED, I NOTICED IT WAS BACKWARDS---IT HAD BEEN TORQUED---AND WAS NOW "BENT". WE WON'T GO INTO HOW "EZ" THINGS WENT AFTER THAT!

BEFORE YOU SNATCH THE CAM OFF WHY DON'T YOU LOOSEN THE CAPS HOLDING THE CAM DOWN----MAYBE 3 REVOLUTIONS LOOSE--ON ALL OF THEM, THEN TURN IT AND SEE IF IT IS THE CAPS OR THE VALVES THAT ARE BINDING

THE MEDIC
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 3:11 AM
Tiny
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You know what I will most difinitely do that thank you guys so much. I have had a migraine all day because of this truck. This has turned into a weeks project and only getting $800.00 because of a friend. Wow the things we do for friends lol. Thanks again so much.
Roy what do u think about the caps being loosened and then spin it. To see if it does the say thing or not.
Medic thanks so much. Narrowing it down, I just dont want to repull the heads and thewn new gaskets and head bolts cause its aluminum. ******** These days on these newer cars. I love the old 80's and 70's models love them. Piece of cake, crum cake.
Anyways thanks guys.
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Thursday, November 10th, 2011 AT 3:25 AM

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