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1996 Cadillac Deville 4.9L

Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 CADILLAC DEVILLE
  • V8
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 120,000 MILES
96 Cad De ville which has been separated at the A-Pillars and just behind the windshield. I have the front end with all mechanicals in tact, I have removed the switch from the steer column and using plastic probe I can turn on the car but all that lights up is the anti lock brake light. Engine will turn over at the starter but not with the switch. I will add that all the wires to the rear of the car are cut off. The Ecm or Ecm's are still present int he right side. I have bypassed the VATS system. What wires do I need on the switch to turn this engine over it is the 4.9L w PFI and has low miles, I have a project in mind for this chassis or lack of but cannot find any literature to help me get it to crank.
Regards
Jim
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 10:41 AM

30 Replies

Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
How exactly did you bypass the Vats system?
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 12:17 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
Attached is the starting circuit schematics. The Red wire with power supply from the batt2 (30 A fuse ) should be the main power supply for the switch. It operates the dash indicator lights as well.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 12:18 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
I measured the resistance on the key and placed into the wire. Well I think this car has a vats. My plan of attack is to remove all wires from the eng compartment tag them and pull through the firewall, then I will re-install all the wires to the eng compartment and slowly find where each wire goes. I have a photo of the disaster.
Thanks
Jim
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 5:53 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
That will bypass only the ignition switch sensor. The rest of the system must still be operational or the starter will be disabled.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 5:55 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
How do I get this disabled, or should I run new wires?
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 5:57 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
You cannot completely disable the Passkey system. It HAS to be operational unless rewire the starter circuit. You may be able to make it work by permanently grounding the yellow/blk wire at the starter relay. That would enable the starter circuit but the Passkey system will also disable the fuel.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:05 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
So can I rewire the fuel? I take it this system is in the ECM and if so can I put in a different ECM or would I be betterr to send it to the scrapper.
JimG
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:09 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
No, you HAVE to make Passkey operational and that may require a professional scan tool.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:11 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
I do have a newer snapon scanner and it should work on the cad.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
It may if it's updated sufficiently.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:18 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
OK, well you did not tell me I was chasing a dead horse so I will give it a go, I am retired with not much to do. Before I go do you have a schematic for the fuel and Vats system and what manual do you recommend
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:21 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
Here ya go. The PCM does all the fuel and starter controlling after receiving authorization from Passkey. The dash cluster is an integral part of the Passkey circuit also.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:28 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
Thank you and have a great day
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 6:29 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
Thats how they build the 70s streach serises at the factory. Its almost 2 feet longer wheel base. Ok jim, you need to drop the column for better axcess to the ingition switch. Before removing the 2 bolts holding the column. You need to remove the cable that goes to the prindle its on the shift bowl. Use a screwdriver to release it. Then remove the bolts. The column will drop down. The switch will be on top of column by the dimmer switch. Red wires are constant power and pink wires are hot when you turn the key on. If you hold the key in crank it sends a start signal on the brown wire. Ck. For that signal. With a test light if ok, it goes from the ingition switch to the neutral safety switch on the side of transmission and next to the starter. You dont need the resisstor for the vats unless the security lite is on. Thank you for donatioins. Gl.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 10:38 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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If any of that is going to work, you should be able to simply turn the key on and jump the starter solenoid and it should run. You might want to try that before doing all that column dropping. I guess we are assuming the security light even works.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 10:45 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
He said it cranks from the starter and not the key wrenchtech. If he can sneek up under the dash and locate the brown wire and turn the key at the same time he checks for a start signal. He can do that too.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 11:13 PM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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Your assuming there is not a Passkey issue causing this and before I would pursue that theory too much I would prove it out by jumping the starter and hearing it run. If it won't run that way, then there is more than a starter circuit issue.
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 11:29 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
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This is true. Just responding to what he 1st said. It turnS OVER FROM THE STARTER AND NOT THE KEY. SORRY CAPS. And he reads the key and gets the right resissor across the 2 white wires. Guess we will see when he comes back. Ltr wrenchtech
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Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 AT 11:44 PM
Tiny
WISCONSINJIMMY
  • MEMBER
  • 14 POSTS
OK, here is where I am at this point in time well let me back up, I got stuck with the bid at auction the car or what is left of it has 12000 on the clock so I was told, for what ever reason the main part of the car was sawed of just behind the A-Pillar all the way across and thru the roof. All wires to the rear were sawed off so what I got was the front with Dash in place and the steering column with the key, no hood, fenders, radiator or A/C condenser.I was texting with a fellow triker and he said the part I needed to make this work was in the trunk. I put a bat in and tried to crank the engine and nothing only thing that happened was the anti lock brake came on I then saw a post about putting a resistor in the key circuit and again nothing. I dropped the column and removed the switch so I could work it manually and made sure the trans was in N. Right now I am working on removing the entire harness from the eng bay pulling it through the firewall and then reinstalling everything back to its original position, this will allow me greater access to the wiring and removing what I do not need. Sounds like a project but I am retired and I need something challenging and I think it would make one heck of a trike, but I need to find the wires that go to the rear of the car that I need. Wiring under the dash was not touched so it is intact also there are two ECM? On the right kick panel. So I appreciate all help.
JimG
Cushing, WI
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Thursday, April 7th, 2011 AT 1:10 AM
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
  • 20,757 POSTS
You cut off a whole fuse box.
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Thursday, April 7th, 2011 AT 1:14 AM

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