Power inside, Relays clicking but no power to ignition system

Tiny
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Just got under car and tested starter solenoid, I had not actually done this because I just assumed that it wasnt getting any power if it wasnt kicking in and just worked and with losing power to coil I assumed the solenoid had too. I know you should never assume anything and I just wasted time when the answer was already partially solved. So I apologize for that. But we are actually getting 12.8v with key off but no kick when key is on. Tested harness that connects to coil and no hot wire showing on test light. I know unless I piggy back the solenoid or drop it and have it bench tested I wont know for sure if the starter is shot but why would the coil have no power going to it and it happend at the same time? Would this still point to the neutral safety switch or ASD realy? And on that Schematic I dont see that harness with acid rot leading would to the coil in anyway? What could cause this? Also I hear one of the relays clicking on the PCM but not the other but if I put my hand on the top of them I can feel them click in there when the key is engaged? What do you make of this because I am stupmed even more now.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:25 PM
Tiny
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OK. This tells me that the wiring is ok from the battery to the relays.
I need to look up a wiring diagram so I need some more info about your car.
Are you sure you are working with the starter relay?
Where is this relay located?
Is your car an LE, GTC or Landau?
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:28 PM
Tiny
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Getting 12.8v to the solenoid means that the wiring from the battery to the starter is good.
We need to check the wiring from the relay to the starter solenoid next. I need to you answer the questions I asked in my previous post so I can look at the correct wiring diagram to help you figure this out.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:31 PM
Tiny
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It is a GTC and the relay is under the hood by the wheel well. There are seven relay spots. It would be #7 if you counted one from the pass. To seven on the driver's side. And ya this should be the starter relay or at least it is listed as the starter relay on the lid of the fuse panel and #6 would be the ignition coil.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:39 PM
Tiny
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And is this a manual tranny or automatic?
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:42 PM
Tiny
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Auto
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:43 PM
Tiny
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And the alternator has power. Showing 12.8 as well. And test light show power feed.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:49 PM
Tiny
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There should be a brown wire that goes from the relay center to the starter solenoid. This wire should have battery voltage when you are trying to start the car. You will probably need someone to help you by trying to turn it over while you check at the starter solenoid to see what the voltage is. Let me know and we'll go from there.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 9:51 PM
Tiny
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It is showing 12.15V but it very a very quick reading. Battery is still showing 12.8V.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 10:15 PM
Tiny
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Hmmm. You should re-check it just to be sure you got an accurate reading. It is very important that we know exactly what the voltage is at this point.
I have to be gone for a few hrs. I'll help more when I get back.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 10:32 PM
Tiny
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I did recheck it it showed 12.2 then it drops to about 3. This is a cheap multimeter but it seems to be doing a pretty good job. Starter and solenoid need to be cleaned there is dirt and oil and on it so I haveing a hard time trying to get a good reading in teh first place. But I'll clean it off with a rag and try a two out of three reading.
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 10:38 PM
Tiny
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Ok, disconnected stater feeds and cleaned them up becuase sometimes I could get a reading and other times it was just showing 0v. So I figured it was because the starter was very dirty and I couldnt get a good connection. So I cleaned the brown wire terminal to get the 12.2 reading so I chalked the odd 0v reading to the dirty starter feeds. But when I disconnected the wires, cleaned all the terminals and attempted to get a reading again, not only did I get a 12+v reading but I heard the starter attempt to turn then I lost the reading very quickly it only last a second then disppeared and nothing. So I tried again 0v three different attempts, then a 12+v reading again but no starter engament. Does this mean starter is faulty or wire has a bad connection? I can always drop the starter and take it to a parts store or piggy back it and see if it kicks but the kick I heard was very healthy not to say that bad starters before they go out dont give healhy kicks occasionally. However I dont think we are getting power to coil still but its not like I was testing it when the starter attempted to kick. Does this wire also connect to the coil in anyway or do I have two simultaneous issues occuring at the same time?
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Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 AT 11:23 PM
Tiny
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Ok well last peice of the puzzle or at least I hope. Dropped the starter and took it to a parts shop. They tested it and its faulty. He attempted to get it to kick and nothing, grabbed a hammer hit once and bendex engaged partially. I then asked why the coil wouldnt be getting spark then if it was the starter and he said that the crank positioning sensor only engages the coil after the flywheel has begun to spin which engages the sensor to engage the coil. If this is so, becuase I know where a crank sensor is and what it controls but not how it controls it, then this should be the last peice of the puzzle. I would have taken the starter in already but the last time I did they told me my starter was bad and it wasnt it was the ignition switch but due to already having bought and installed the starter I was out $100. And I did in fact watch another guy hook it up and attempt to start it. So maybe he got the code wrong or didint hook it up either way I should of done trouble shooting and didnt so I did this time and all in all it was worth it. I learned alot today and it was great working with you on this. However if you think this is the last peice of the puzzle please let me know. If not please let me know that too. The owner of the car is picking up the starter tomorrow and going to shop around for the best price so I wont know for sure for a day or two until I actually install the new starter. But once I do and know for sure that I wont need any further assisance from you then I will let you know and I will make a donation. This was a big help and I very much appreciate everything you have done for me.

Thanks, STKDTK
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Wednesday, September 21st, 2011 AT 1:07 AM
Tiny
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This makes sense to me. I think this will probably fix it. At least I hope!
I know I took you through a lot of hoops, but that is the only way to get an accurate diagnosis of the problem. You always have to start with the basics and go from there.
Let me know if you need more help.
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Wednesday, September 21st, 2011 AT 2:31 AM

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