Sputtering / conking out

Tiny
77CHIEF
  • MEMBER
  • 1977 JEEP CHEROKEE
  • 87,543 MILES
77 jeep cherokee chief V 8 401 6.6L engine with 4 bbl carb. Drove it 47 miles and it would sputter somebtimes or hesitate and then conk out. Sometmes up a hill sometimes down. Once or twice on level ground. Iwill have to drop it in neutral and restart it. Only to have it done again. Have been told maybe fuel filter or ignition control module. But would like your ideas please.
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Monday, September 5th, 2011 AT 9:54 PM

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Tiny
ASHLEY29666
  • MEMBER
WELL SIR, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CHANGED THAT FILTER?

I'M SURE I COULD FIND IT IN THE BOOK---I HAVE THE '79 AMC JEEP SERVICE MANUAL, ALL OF 'EM WERE ABOUT THE SAME '76-'79.

PRESENTLY, I HAVE A '77 CJ-5

I CHANGE MY FILTER ONCE A YEAR--NEED IT OR NOT!

LET'S DO THAT ANYWAY. SEE WHERE WE STAND.I ALSO KEEP SOME SPARE PARTS WITH ME (I CAN EXPLAIN LATER, IF YOU WISH!)

NEXT QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU IS. WHAT DISTRIBUTOR DO YOU HAVE? AND WHAT DOES YOUR MODULE LOOK LIKE?

PICS OF BOTH ARE HELPFUL!

I HAD A "PRESTOLITE", ON MY 258 6 CYLINDER---PAIN IN TAILPIPE!---AFTER MANY RELATED/ UNRELATED INCIDENTS (I'LL DESCRIBE, IF YOU WANNA HEAR 'EM), I CHANGED THE DIST AND THE MODULE OUT, UPGRADED TO THE "MOTORCRAFT SYSTEM" WHICH CAM OUT IN 1979, AND WAS USED THE REST OF THE TIME FOR CJs. DOING SO, WAS RELATIVELY EZ, I SHOULD HAVE DONE IT LONG AGO!

YOU COULD ALSO BE HAVING OTHER ISSUES. LIKE A VACUUM LEAK, OR CARB, PROBLEMS, WIRING, IGN SWITCH. CAN YOU CHECK SOME OF THIS STUFF YOURSELF? ARE YOU COMPETENT UNDER THE HOOD WITH, NORMAL STUFF? DO YOU HAVE ANY TUNE-UP TOOLS AND METERS?

LET'S NOT JUST START CHANIN' STUFF. LETS TRY SOME, SOMEWHAT METHODICAL METHODS, ON TRYING TO FACTOR DOWN TO THE PROBLEM. INSTEAD OF ADDING MORE FACTORS IN!

I DO DECENT, TALKING THRU THIS STUFF. IF THE OTHER END, ACTUALLY PERFORMS TESTS CORRECTLY (OR AT ALL, FOR THAT MATTER)

NOTHING LIKE EXPLAINING A TEST FOR, LET'S SAY THE COIL. AND THE RESPONSE BACK IS, "MY FRIEND SAYS IT, MIGHT BE THE SENDING UNIT IN THE FUEL TANK, SO WE CHANGED IT, AND THE SPARK PLUGS TOO!". COIL NEVER GETS TESTED!

SO I WANT ANSWERS TO ALL I ASKED. PLEASE. ALONG WITH EVERYTHING YOU AND YOUR EVIL PARTNER HAS DONE TO IT! ALONG WITH ANY HISTORY, TO INCLUDE THE LAST TUNE UP. ALL PARTS AND ABOUT WHEN!

I'M GONNA SHOW YOU MY FUEL FILTER, 1 IN, 2 OUT (OUT TO CARB, AND OTHER OUT TO FUEL TANK RETURN) YOURS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME SET-UP.I HAVE SOME EXTRA CRAP, PAY IT NO ATTENTION NOW. IS YOUR LIKE THIS STILL?

LAST QUESTION FOR NOW. WHEN IT DIES, IS IT COMPLETE DEATH. SPITS AND SPUTTERS. BACKFIRES. ANY SYMPTOMS YOU CAN ADD DURING THE DYING?

I'M WILLING TO TRY

YOUR DEAL?

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, September 6th, 2011 AT 1:40 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
ALLRIGHTY THEN!

I'M HELPING MY COMPUTER GUY WITH HIS '63 NOVA (HE'S CAR DUMB!), HE GOT ON MY COMPUTER AND SUBMITTED A QUESTION ABOUT HIS TRUCK. ME BEING COMPUTER STUPID, I JUST ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION UNDER HIS NAME---SORRY, I'M STRAIGHT NOW. THAT WAS MY ANSWER ABOVE, NOT ASHLEY29666

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, September 6th, 2011 AT 2:04 AM
Tiny
77CHIEF
  • MEMBER
Ok first off thank you for the wraalth of knowledge so far. Second I have taken pics of my engine compartment ani don't see a fuel filter however there is a fuel pump on drivers side in the engine compartment. When I was driving ut it would sputter and back fire then just die. While cruising I shift it into neutral and had to start it back up anthat would alieviate the problem for a few. Then it would repeat.

A little background on it is I traded someone for it on friday the 2nd. It has only 87k orig miles ob it. Bathe quad trac system in it.I have only owned one other vehicle with a carb so when I include the pics please educate me on is it two or 4 barrel. I know my fuel sending kit is n error and will need replacing. What I don't know is is the pump in the tank as well or is it inline. I haven't crawled under to see if by chance the fuel filter is on frame rails. Only thing I cnt ding is ignition control module. Im sure ill have more questions later but for now have not done to much to it yet.
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Tuesday, September 6th, 2011 AT 3:12 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
THIS ENGINE WAS AN OPTION IN THIS YEAR (I HAVE LOTS OF REFERENCES, MOSTLY OBTAINED FOR MY CJs)

IN '79 (THE YEAR OF MY AMC SERVICE MANUAL), THE CHEROKEE'S "BIG ENGINE" WAS THE 304, SO I CANNOT REFERENCE YOUR "401" THERE. LIKE I SAID I DO HAVE OTHER REFERENCES (I HAVE A PIC OF SOME OF THEM)

YOUR CARB IS A 4 BARREL, SOME CARBS ARE MORE OBVIOUS TO TELL, THAN OTHERS. ON MY 6 CYLINDER, I HAVE A HOLLEY 390 CFM CARB. IN A PIC BELOW, IT IS EZ TO SEE 4 DISTINCT BARRELS GOING INTO IT (YOUR REAR 2 ARE SORTA NOT EXPOSED LIKE MINE)

OVER THE YEARS, YOURS HAS BEEN MODIFIED, I DO NOT RECOGNIZE YOUR DISTRIBUTOR, JUDGING FROM IT'S CONNECTOR, IT APPEARS TO BE AFTERMARKET. QUESTION: SEEING THE 3 WIRES GOING INTO IT, SURELY IT IS ELECTRONIC, FOLLOW THOSE WIRES, IS THERE A "MODULE"? CAN YOU GET PICS? (PREVIOUS PICS ARE A BIT HAZY, CAN YOU DO BETTER?

CAN YOU COMPETENTLY USE A VOLTMETER? NEED INSTRUCTION? DO YOU HAVE A DIGITAL VOLTMEER? GOT HELP ON YOUR END. THIS IS SORTA IMPORTANT, AS TO CONTINUE TESTING STUFF!

IN YOUR 3RD PIC, THIS WHITE, CERAMIC ITEM ABOUT MID-PIC, IS CALLED A "BALLAST RESISTOR" IN MY '77 CJ 5, THE FACTORY PROVIDES A "RESISTANCE WIRE", WHICH REDUCES VOLTAGE TO THE COIL (ON MANY OLDER VEHICLES, THIS WAS NOT PROVIDED, AND THE BALLAST RESISTOR WAS A MUST, TO LOWER THE VOLTS, GOING TO THE COIL.

WHEN I RESTORED MY '46, I WIRED HIM MUCH LIKE MY '77, BUT WITH THE LACK OF RESISTANCE WIRE, I USED A BALLAST RESISTOR (SEE IN 2 PICS, PASS FIREWALL)

SEE-UN HOW YOU HAVE NOT HAD THIS LONG--WAS THIS AN ISSUE WITH THE PREVIOUS OWNER?

THIS IS MY WHOLE REASON FOR NEEDING SOME VOLTMETER TESTING PERFORMED, IF THINGS HAVE BEEN ADDED, AND OTHER THINGS NOT ELIMINATED, YOU MAY HAVE A ELECTRICAL ISSUE HAPPENING, AND SOMETHING NEEDING CHANGED.

I AM SORTA HESITANT ABOUT GIVING MORE INFO, UNTIL WE CAN TEST. AS IF YOU "JUMP AHEAD", AS MANY WILL DO, YOU MAY MAKE THINGS WORSE.I JUST ELIMINATED MY POINTS SYSTEM ON MY '46, SEVERAL IMPORTANT CHANGES HAD TO OCCUR, FOR THE NEW SYSTEM TO WORK RIGHT. COULD BE SOMEONE DIDN'T THRU ALL OF THEIR INSTRUCTIONS WHILE MESSING WITH THEIRS/YOURS. WE WILL GET THERE! KEEP YOUR FEMALE UNDERGARMENTS FROM GETTING ALL BUNCHED UP!LOL!

LIKE BEFORE--I NEED YOU TO GIVE ME ANSWERS!

HERE'S YOUR 1ST MISSIONS

1ST PIC OF YOUR CARB. CENTER. BOTTOM OF PIC, THIS IS YOUR FUEL FEED TO CARB. IS THAT THE FILTER BETWEEN THE CARB AND THE FUEL LINE? FOLLOW LINE FURTHER OUT, IS THERE ANOTHER FILTER? GO AHEAD AND CHANGE THE FILTER. IT'S HISTORY MAY BE UNKNOWN. WHAT'S $5 ANYWAY?

NEXT MISSION

KEEP IN MIND, THERE ARE "PESKY MOVING PARTS" UNDER YOUR HOOD, WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING!

START JEEP, LET IT IDLE. METHODICALLY MOVE WIRING. ANY AND ALL! SORTA GENTLY AT 1ST, WE WANT TO SORTA MAYBE "LUCK" INTO A SHORT OR LOOSE CONNECTION. REALLY GIVE THIS YOUR BEST SHOT. LETS PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE DISTRIBUTOR---COIL---MODULE---WIRES TO THE CERAMIC BALLAST RESISTOR. ALL OF THESE ITEMS ARE CONNECTED TO "ON" ON YOUR IGNITION SWITCH, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

SHOULD IT "STUMBLE" WHILE YOU DO THIS, CONCENTRATE, FINE THE PROBLEM, AT MINIMUM, ABOUT WHERE IT OCCURRED!

SORTA WHAT I DO, BEFORE I BUTCHER SOMETHING!

VOLTMETER?

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, September 6th, 2011 AT 2:21 PM
Tiny
77CHIEF
  • MEMBER
In your 4 th pic that the ceramic part your talking about? I have acess to a voltmeter been a de years since been on one but my neighbor can help. What dou you want me to check and what are the tolerances? I will set out to fund dam fuel filter. Ut im thi king since he put a pump so close to carb he mayhave not included it ill send a pic I. My next reply of the pump I have and we can go from there. Thank you again anmy name is Patrick
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Tuesday, September 6th, 2011 AT 3:29 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
ROGER ON MOST OF THAT!

YOU HAVE AN ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP ON THAT?

MAY BE TOO MUCH PRESSURE, IF IT IS. ANYWAY TO GO BACK TO THE MECHANICAL ONE THAT IS NORMALLY ON THE ENGINE?

CAN YOU LOCATE A (OLD) RETURN LINE TO THE TANK? YOU MAY BE ABLE TO FOLLOW 3 LINES FROM THE TANK. ONE IS THE FEED TO THE CARB, ONE IS THE RETURN, THE OTHER IS THE VENT. FACTOR OUT THE VENT, THE VENT ON MOST I HAVE SEEN, IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT LOOKS LIKE A SMALL GARDEN HOSE IN COLOR, AND SHOULD BE HOOKED TO THE CANISTER

WITH THE FUEL LINE SET UP, AS IN MY PICS, ONE END COMES FROM THE MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP, GOES INTO THE FILTER, SPLITS OFF TO THE CARB, AND THE "HIGHER", SMALLER LINE ON THE FILTER, GOES INTO THE RETURN, AND BACK TO THE TANK. THIS PREVENTS OVER-PRESSURING THE NEEDLE AND SEAT INSIDE THE CARB. MY PUMP PUTS OUT LESS THAN 7 PSI! AND STILL, IT IS SET UP THIS WAY.

CAN YOU GIVE ME A PRESSURE READING, JUST BEFORE YOUR FUEL LINE ENTERS THE CARB?

AS FOR THE CERAMIC THING. YOU SHOW ONE IN YOUR 3RD PIC, DOES IT TRAVEL TO THE COIL? (ORANGE AND RE WIRES TO IT) MINE IS IN MY OLDER JEEP, IT NEEDS THIS TO REDUCE VOLTAGE TO THE COIL. AT THE SAME TIME IT NEEDS TO USE A COIL, "FOR EXTERNAL RESISTOR ONLY" (SEE MY PICS BELOW). MY OTHER JEEP (CJ 5, '77) IS SET UP THE SAME WAY (FACTORY) IT USES A "RESISTANCE WIRE", INSTEAD OF THE "BALLAST RESISTOR"----SAME THEORY!---ALSO MUST USE THE SAME "TYPE" COIL AS IN MY PIC, THEIR CONNECTORS ARE DIFFERENT, BUT IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME COIL

NOT KNOWING HOW YOUR WIRING HAS BEEN MODIFIED.I WANT YOU TO TURN YOUR KEY TO ON. TELL ME WHAT THE VOLTS ARE ON BOTH SIDES OF YOUR BALLAST RESISTOR

I WANT YOU TO VERIFY THAT ONE END OF IT WINDS UP AT YOUR COIL. TEST VOLTAGE AT THE POSITIVE SIDE OF YOUR COIL TO!

THEN TURN THE KEY OFF--VERIFY EVERYTHING "DIED" THAT YOU JUST TESTED

I WANT A PIC OF YOUR IGN MODULE. AS WELL AS, CAN YOU IDENTIFY IT'S MFGer, DO THE SAME WITH THE DISTRIBUTOR. IN BETTER FOCUS?

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOUR VOLTMETER READINGS DIFFER FROM MINE, AT THIS TIME. I'M LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO START. SO BEAR WITH ME, LET'S NOT CHANGE STUFF YET!

SEE-UNS HOW I CANNOT SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE, AND YOU MAY NOT "CONCEIVE" THE WHOLE PICTURE. EVEN WITH ME HAVING "HANDS ON", THIS MAY BE HARD TO FIGURE OUT.I'M JUST FISHIN' RIGHT NOW!

MY GOAL NOW IS TO KNOW IF THE FUEL FILTER IMPROVED THINGS, AND WHAT KINDA "WILD MODIFICATIONS" MAY NOT BE IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY.

LUCKY YOU GOT ME (A DEVOTED JEEP FELLER!) MANY HERE, CLAIM THEY ONLY DEAL WITH OEM STUFF, AND SORTA "BOW OUT"

I SOMETIMES HELP "REAL TIME", WHEN I GET THE FEEL OF WHAT'S GOING ON. SO STICK WITH ME!

ARE YOU/ OR YOUR END, CAPABLE OF READING WIRE DIAGRAMS?

THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, September 6th, 2011 AT 6:27 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
OK PATRICK

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR INTENTIONS ARE WITH THIS VEHICLE

I HAVE REALLY THOUGHT THIS THRU, A LOT! NOT REALLY KNOWING THE HISTORY OF THIS THING, AS FAR AS IT BEING 100% OPERATIONAL WITH THE FUEL MODIFICATION. OR IT JUST WAS "UN-FIXABLE" TO THE LAST OWNER, SO YOU BOUGHT IT, PROBLEMS AND ALL.

I THINK THE FUEL DELIVERY REALLY NEEDS ATTENTION, BEFORE WE GO ON, TO SOMETHING ELSE. BUT PLEASE DO SEND THE OTHER PICS AND CONTINUE ANSWERING

IF IT'S GONNA BE A DAILY DRIVER, SOME OF THESE MODIFICATIONS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THOUGHT THRU WELL.

THE ELECTRIC PUMP MAY HAVE BEEN A "MACHO"--BIGGER IS BETTER DECISION, OR THE PARTS STORE MAN RECOMMENDED IT, IT WAS CHEAPER THAN THE MECHANICAL PUMP----WHO KNOWS.I DO NOT THINK IT'S HELPING, IT'S PROBABLY HURTING!

IF YOUR FUEL PUMP GENERATES MORE THAN 10 PSI WE MAY HAVE TO MODIFY THE SYSTEM YOU HAVE NOW, OR GO BACK STOCK, WITH A MECHANICAL PUMP.I DON'T THINK YOU CARB COULD EVEN STAND 10 PSI, AND OPERATE CORRECTLY.I BELIEVE YOUR CARB WAS DESIGNED FOR 5-7 PSI

IF YOUR CARB RECEIVES TOO MUCH PRESSURE, IT OVERRIDES THE FLOAT AND TOO MUCH FUEL GOES INTO THE CARB AND YOU FLOOD. THIS MAY NOT BE THE ISSUE CAUSING YOUR PROBLEM RIGHT NOW. BUT THIS MAY NEED ADDRESSING SOONER OR LATER

I THINK I PLUGGED THE INFO IN RIGHT, THIS IS WHAT THEY SAY SHOULD BE ON THERE.I GOTTA AGREE

AS FOR GETTING PRESSURE DOWN, TO AN ACCEPTABLE PRESSURE TO THE CARB. MY 2ND PIC, MIGHT DO IT. IF NOT, IT WILL BE SET UP AS IT SHOULD BE, AND BE PERFECT WHEN YOU RE-INSTALL THE MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP SYSTEM

WHERE IS "HOME" FOR YOU AND YOUR JEEP?

WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON ALL OF THIS SO FAR?

MAYBE. THIS FELLER IS CRAZY AND DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!

WAITIN' ON YOU

THE MEDIC
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Wednesday, September 7th, 2011 AT 4:44 AM

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