Engine will not crank over?

Tiny
GREGS
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  • 2 POSTS
Which of these problems will keep the motor from getting the spark (or fuel) that keeps it from starting when I shorted the starter?
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:56 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DEUS4U
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
  • 2003 PONTIAC GRAND AM
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 65,578 MILES
Hello my name is Michael,
I have a sevice engine soon light on and a security light flashing on instrument cluster. When I try to start nothing happens even the starter is not engaging. Is there something I can do myself to repair the problem. I do not really any money to repair the problem but I will have find a way because it is my only car.
Could you be kind enough to give me an estimate on how much it my cost to repair and where to take it?

Thank you so very much!

Michael
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:56 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DAVE H
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,383 POSTS
Hello .. thanks for the donation .. much appreciated

start by doing the 10 minute relearn procedure located below.

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description and Operation
Passlockà † System
The Passlockà † System is provided in order to prevent vehicle theft if the ignition lock cylinder is forced to rotate or the ignition switch is operated while separated from the ignition lock cylinder case. If starting is attempted without authorization from the Passlockà † System, the powertrain control module (PCM) will disable the fuel injectors causing the engine to stall immediately after starting.
The components of the Passlockà † System are as follows:
The ignition lock cylinder and key
The ignition lock cylinder case, including the Passlockà † Sensor
The ignition switch
The body control module (BCM)
The security indicator on the instrument cluster
The powertrain control module (PCM)
Ignition Lock Cylinder Case, Including the Passlockà † Sensor
The ignition lock cylinder fits inside the ignition lock cylinder case and operates the ignition switch when turned by a key with the proper mechanical cut. When the ignition key is used to turn the ignition lock cylinder to crank, start, a magnet on the lock cylinder passes close to the Passlockà † Sensor within the ignition lock cylinder case. The magnet activates the Security Hall Effect Sensor in the Passlockà † Sensor which completes a circuit from the security sensor signal circuit through a resistor to the security sensor low reference circuit. The resistance value will vary from vehicle to vehicle.
If a magnet from outside of the ignition lock cylinder case is used to attempt to steal the vehicle, the Tamper Hall Effect Sensor will be activated. This completes a circuit from the security sensor signal circuit through a tamper resistor to the security sensor low reference circuit bypassing the security resistor. If the ignition switch is forced to rotate without the correct key, or if the ignition lock cylinder is removed by force, the Passlockà † Sensor will be damaged and will not operate.
Ignition Switch
The ignition switch contains the wiring and electrical switching portion of the column mounted ignition assembly. The ignition switch includes wiring pigtails which connect it to the base of column connector, the Passlockà † Sensor on the ignition lock cylinder case, and other components. The wiring for the Passlockà † Sensor is unaffected by ignition switch position. The electrical switch portion is operated by the key and lock cylinder when they are rotated within the ignition lock cylinder case. The ignition switch operates the crank relay regardless of the status of the Passlockà † System.
Body Control Module (BCM)
The BCM contains the logic of the theft deterrent system. The BCM provides the battery positive voltage to operate the Passlockà † Sensor. The BCM also measures the voltage of the security sensor signal circuit. The voltage measured will indicate whether the Passlockà † Sensor has been activated and whether the resistance value from the sensor is a valid value or the tamper value. If voltage measured is in the valid range, the BCM compares this voltage, voltage code, to a previously learned voltage code. If the voltage codes match, the BCM sends a class 2 message containing a password to the PCM. If the voltage codes do not match, or the voltage is in the Tamper range, or there is a circuit fault, the BCM will not send the correct password to the PCM, and the vehicle will not start.
Powertrain Control Module
The powertrain control module (PCM) contains the remainder of the logic of the theft deterrent system. If a class 2 message containing a valid password is received from the BCM, the PCM will continue to allow the fuel injectors to operate. The PCM will allow the fuel injectors to operate until it decides there is no valid password coming from the BCM. If the PCM does not receive a class 2 message, or receives a class 2 message with an incorrect password, the engine will crank and will not run or will start and stall immediately.
Theft System Indicator
The IPC illuminates the theft deterrent indicator as determined by the theft deterrent system. The IPC receives a class 2 message from the BCM requesting illumination.
The vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system requests the IPC to illuminate the indicator only when the ignition switch is ON.
The content theft deterrent (CTD) system requests the IPC to illuminate the indicator only when the ignition switch is in the OFF or ACC positions or during RAP.
The body control module performs the displays test at the start of each ignition cycle. The indicator illuminates for approximately 3 seconds.
Fuel Lockout Cycle
When it receives a password which is incorrect or a password which indicates tamper and the PCM disables the fuel injectors, the fuel injectors remain disabled for 10 minutes even if the ignition switch is turned from the RUN position to the OFF position.
Changing the Passlockà † Components
The following components contain codes or passwords, or must learn codes or passwords for the Passlockà † system to allow the vehicle to start:
The ignition lock cylinder case
BCM
The powertrain control module (PCM)
If any of these parts are replaced, a learn procedure must be performed. Refer to PROGRAMMING THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM COMPONENTS . If parts are replaced and a learn procedure is not performed, the engine will crank and will not run or will start and stall immediately.
Programming Theft Deterrent System Components
Important: Due to component variability, the vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system must have the learn procedure performed regardless, if the vehicle starts on the first ignition cycle after a VTD repair.
All codes in the theft deterrent module must be cleared for a relearn.
Important:
The body control module (BCM) must be programmed with the proper RPO configurations before performing learn procedures. Refer to BODY CONTROL MODULE (BCM) PROGRAMMING/RPO CONFIGURATION in Body Control System.
If replacing the BCM with a GM Service Parts Operations (SPO) replacement part, the module will learn Passlockà † sensor data code immediately. The existing PCM however, must learn the new fuel continue password when the BCM is replaced.
If replacing a PCM with a GM Service Parts Operations (SPO) replacement part, after programming, these modules will learn the incoming fuel continue password immediately upon receipt of a password message. Once a password message is received, and a password is learned, a learn procedure must be performed to change this password again. A PCM which has been previously installed in another vehicle will have learned the other vehicle's fuel continue password and will require a learn procedure after programming to learn the current vehicle's password.
Conditions
Use these procedures after replacing:
Passlockà † Sensor
BCM
PCM
********10 Minute Learn Procedure*********
Tools Required:
None

Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (vehicle will not start).
Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.
Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlockà † Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.
Important: The vehicle learns the Passlockà † Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.
Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlockà † Sensor Data Code and/or password.
With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.

hope this helps


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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:56 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DEUS4U
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Thank very much for the information. Could you please give me a estimated cost to repair the problem and Can I take the car to a repair shop to fix or would you recommend me taking to a dealership.
I have to save as much on the cost to repair as much as I can.

Thank you very much,

Michael
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:56 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DAVE H
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,383 POSTS
Hey.

If you do it yourself it will not cost you a penny !! Follow the 4 steps below ... if you do use a repair shop .. print and take this description with you .. most good independant shops will do it for you or at a minimal labor charge .. (it only takes 10 minutes and a few key turns) If you want the shop to check and diagnose the DTC's .. the usual diagnostic fee will apply (around $100)

********10 Minute Learn Procedure*********
Tools Required:
None
After the vehicle has been left off for at least 10 minutes !

(1)Turn ON the ignition with the engine OFF.

(2)Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (crank engine, do not turn key back)

Observe the SECURITY telltale (light), after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF. (light will flash/stay on for 10 minutes then go OFF)

(3)Turn OFF the ignition, and wait at least 5 seconds.

(The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlockà † Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.)

(4)Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlockà † Sensor Data Code and/or password.

(optional)With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.

Hope this helps


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/266999_AAA2_969.png

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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:56 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DEUS4U
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Thank you Dave so much! My car had been sitting for two days.I used the simple four steps and Success! I drove away very very Happy. You save me so much time and especial Money. Your the Best!

Michael
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:56 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JKNOWLES454
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have the same problem with my 99 and I performed the procedure and it works but it keeps doing it every once and a while whenever it feels like it. I ran a scan tool on it and it reads that it says that the password is incorrect but it wont tell what the problem exactly is. I have been told to try a new key. I am not sure what else to try to fix the problem. It is kind of an inconvenience.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SIDBEAR
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2003 PONTIAC GRAND AM
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 94,000 MILES
Car wont start has all power but will not turn over at all
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BDOGG0070
  • MECHANIC
  • 42 POSTS
A new key should help. I had the same problem with my 1992 Pontiac Firebird. Every so often I would put the key in and the security light would stay on. But the relearn thing did not work on mine. So I went and got a new key. It has not failed since then.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JDL
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,098 POSTS
I'd have to make sure the battery has a full charge and the connections are good. Check all applicable fuse circuits for voltage. There is a starter relay in underhood fuse box, check voltage circuits. The purple wire at starter solenoid should be hot with key in the crank position. Did you try cranking in neutral? Anytime the starter wiring system, shows the pcm involved, I have to ask about the security system?
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KERNSGEORGE
  • MEMBER
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Have a 2003 grand am car had crank and power but did not start so looked at fuses under hood. Seemed the module fuse was blow so look for cause. Here is by coil pack cheeked wires and they were bear and touching so I wrapped them with heat shrink each one. Then wrapped with electrical tape. Yes and car started right up. So cheek wires first because can save money. Use a tester for fuses not need to pull each one.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BIGRED83
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
  • 2003 PONTIAC GRAND AM
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 136,567 MILES
Tried to start my '03 Grand Am, and it wouldn't even attempt to turn over. All lights/dash lights are bright, heater, radio work just fine. I checked all fuses, nothing. Tightened gas cap, nothing. Checked battery cable connections, nothing still. I took a screwdriver and crossed positive & negative posts on starter and it spun but did not engage. I was thinking it was the starter, but why wouldn't it at least spin when I turned the ignition? And even if it did, it's not engaging so could there be more to it than just a faulty starter motor?
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BLUELIGHTNIN6
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,542 POSTS
Try bench testing the starter off of the car before buying a new one.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BIGRED83
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  • 5 POSTS
You talkin bout takin it and gettin it tested? I'm really not very mechanically inclined, surprised I found a problem to begin with! Thanks for the reply
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BLUELIGHTNIN6
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,542 POSTS
You can do it yourself with a set of jumper cables and your car battery, but if you are not experienced in mechanics then you might want to have a local repair shop test it for your safety. If you want instructions on how to do it yourself just let me know.

P.S. Most shops will charge little to test the starter so don't pay out more than $20 or $25.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BIGRED83
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Right on. So, dumb question here, when I crossed the pos. And neg. Posts w/ a screwdriver on the starter, and it just spun w/o engaging, was that anything similiar to a bench test?
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BLUELIGHTNIN6
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,542 POSTS
Yes, similar. More detailed though. This can be done with a set of booster cables. Hook the positve to the starter solenoid, get the clamp on the main power stud to the starter and the smaller solenoid power stud. The other end of positive goes to batteries positive. The negative booster cable gets hooked to the battery negative. Be careful because you'll be making sparks so don't have any flammable substances anywhere near. Clamp down the starter. Touch the starter end of the negative cable to the body of the starter (somewhere around the bolt holes will work). You'll get some spark and the starter will give a jump. You should hear/see the starter work. What you're looking for is the starter drive to jump out to the end of the nose cone and spin. If this doesn't happen then the starter needs replacing. If this does happen then check the one way clutch on the starter drive. Pry against the starter drive gear with a screw driver. It should turn one way but not the other, there is a one way clutch in the drive. If it turns fairly freely both ways the drive is shot. Like I said, you are probably better off just taking it out and getting it tested at a local shop. Sorry I can't be of more help.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BIGRED83
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  • 5 POSTS
Thank you very much, you've been a tremendous help.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
BLUELIGHTNIN6
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,542 POSTS
Thanks for using 2carpros. Com! Please leave feedback if you believe I was helpful. Post your results of the test and let us know if you have any more questions.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)
Tiny
IMPALASS
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,112 POSTS
Hello - bluelightnin6, gave you outstanding info on checking the starter yourself. Also for your info, you could go to Auto Zone or O'Reilly's and for free, they will bench check your starter. I like the price..... Free. If you are able to drive your car, (not now of course) for free also they can bring their tester out and check your battery, alternator and starter. While there for free they can pull the codes to the car.
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Friday, July 31st, 2020 AT 9:57 AM (Merged)

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