Fuel economy?

Tiny
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  • 2002 CHEVROLET PRIZM
  • 1.8L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 226,000 MILES
I use this car for delivery work a lot. Yesterday I put over 250 miles on it delivering. On a mail route, with the heavy stop and go, it used to get about 18 MPG. It's down closer to 16 now. City/highway/rural combined mileage was around 36 MPG. Now it's dropped to 32. Doesn't sound like a lot, unless you drive 1,000+ miles/week.

Engine light is on, but it has been all the while. Code P0420. I even scanned it again last night. Trust me, it's a nonfactor. Very "high flow" converter. That's the only code. Live data showed slightly negative long term fuel trim (~-3%). Tires are all new and the alignment is dead on with new inner tie rod ends.

The only issue I could spot was all four tires showed 3psi low (48 instead of 51 written on the sidewall). That could be attributed to the fact that I was using the gauge at a gas station that I've never used before, so maybe it's inaccurate.

Spark plugs have about 10k on them and are the ones that ACDelco's website calls for. Air filter is also pretty new and very clean.

Gas cap is new. No smell of gas fumes either.

If I stand on the gas, the car runs like a champ.

I do believe, regardless of what the EPA website says, that I should be able to get 37 or so mpg out of this thing, under the right driving conditions. What am I missing? And do you happen to have any outside the box ideas to increase the economy? It's a work car, so looks don't really matter. It's all about functionality. I need it to go, stop, have a working radio, working windows, and pass safety inspection. Anything else is a luxury.
Sunday, October 30th, 2022 AT 2:57 AM

22 Replies

Tiny
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Hi,

The tire pressure should be around 30 to 35 PSI. Otherwise, the centers are likely to wear first.

As far as the fuel economy, that can simply be caused by wear. If the mileage you indicated is what's on the engine, lower compression simply from wear can lower fuel economy.

It sounds like you have a good handle on what to check for. I do have a question. What are the short-term fuel trims?

As far as the converter code, maybe that is throwing off the O2 sensor's readings.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, October 30th, 2022 AT 9:03 PM
Tiny
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The sidewall writing on the tires calls for 51psi, so that's what I go with. I figure I load it down daily with hundreds of pounds of mail and packages and then go curb hopping.

As for wear on the engine, yeah, it's the original engine. But the change in fuel economy shouldn't have happened over just a few months and 10k miles. Plus the oil stays pretty clean up until about 5k miles. With all of the idling hours I put on it, that's solid. And it loses very little oil. Maybe a quart between changes, and those changes aren't exactly on time. Also, while it's no powerhouse, I believe it has retained every one of it's miniature horses over the years. It runs quite well, even with the throttle wide open. Yes, I open it up occasionally on all of my route cars to try and keep the carbon buildup from getting so bad.

I have noticed 2 things over the last couple of days though. 1, it seems the idle is high when cold. About 1500. If I drop it in gear and just let of t of the brake, it'll pull itself up to 15mph and even shift to second gear. Maybe I need to look at the IAC motor and bore, and possibly clean the throttle body itself. Would you have any other suggestions on that end?

I also think 1 or both of my front brake calipers may be sticking just a bit. This happens on mail cars all the time. I say that because after just driving around a bit (normal errand running) I felt the front wheels and they were very warm. Warmer than they should've been, I think. I'll grease the caliper pistons and see what happens.

What do you think? Would you have any other suggestions? I hate wasting time pulling things apart and cleaning/fighting with them if there's no chance it'll work.
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Tuesday, November 1st, 2022 AT 5:47 AM
Tiny
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Just confirmed the front passenger caliper is sticking. After a 20 mile drive down I40, it's considerably warmer than the driver's side. Short term fuel trim stays between -2 and 1, mostly right on 0. I still want to look at that idle though. I know it should idle a bit higher when cold, but not 1500. I'm thinking 1000ish on most 4-cylinder cars.
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Tuesday, November 1st, 2022 AT 7:54 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

The caliper may be the cause of the loss in MPG. As far as the idle speed cold, 1500 really isn't too high. On first start, I would suspect it to be between 1200 and 1500. That is all based on the temperature and a few different sensors providing information to the PCM.

Have you replaced the caliper?

Let me know.

Joe
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Tuesday, November 1st, 2022 AT 7:07 PM
Tiny
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I greased the passenger side caliper piston using PB Blaster and now it stays cooler than the driver's side. So I guess that means I've got to do the driver's side too. An old trucker taught need to pull calipers off, pull the rubber boot that goes around the piston, and stick the straw of the aerosol penetrating oil in there and spray until you can't get any more in there. That'll clean off the built up brake dust and the renew the caliper. Also do the same with slide pins. I've been doing this for years on my route cars. Works well. Especially in the front passenger wheel that takes all of the pressure all day long.
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Sunday, November 6th, 2022 AT 7:19 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

Absolutely that will help. Did you also grease it with brake grease? I usually clean them out with brake cleaner and a shop rag and then grease them.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, November 6th, 2022 AT 7:09 PM
Tiny
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Never thought of that. Honestly though, the PB blaster seems to have worked. I took a short vacation on a budget. Since it's my most fuel-efficient car, even with the increased consumption, I drove it. 265 miles, mostly highway, the last 50 ranged from basically nonstop 25 MPH to 45 MPH. It used about 9 gallons. Not terrible, but still not what I'm looking for in the easy driving miles.

So, I scanned it when I got there, before turning it off, and just got the same old P0420 code, set and pending again. Nothing else. Live data showed nothing unusual except short term fuel trims around -7 and stable there. That's a rich condition, correct? But not enough to set a code. As I recall, most cars need about 9+ (-/+) to set rich/lean codes.

Fuel tank was near E, but no gas light. I know from when I bought the car there's at least a few gallons left when the light comes on. It was so low I thought the gauge was broken when I bought it. Didn't even move when I put a gallon in from my container. Anyways, whenever I got out and opened the gas cap, I got a pretty good whoosh sound. Not sure if it was sucking in or pushing out. Again, no EVAP codes. New gas cap as the old was leaking awhile back.

Left it idling for a bit and fuel trim held. This is new. Could that be caused by the "extremely high flow" converter and 420 code? Would a proper non-fouler fix it? And is there anything else that could cause this?

The air filter is clean and fairly new. MAF is new. The plugs are new and OE.

Sorry to fire off so many questions and be so long winded. It's how my brain works. Kind of going through a diagnostic process while typing and being thorough.
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Wednesday, November 16th, 2022 AT 5:18 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

As far as the fuel trims are concerned, they need to stay between -10% and +10% so you are good. I didn't stay exactly the same if you pressed the throttle, did it?

Now, I'm not familiar with what type of converter is on the vehicle. However, based on the information, it sounds like the sensors are doing their jobs. By chance, did you pay attention to the voltage at the oxygen sensors? If they are good, my first suspect is the high-flow converter has failed.

Let me know your thoughts. And don't worry about the length of your post. I usually do the exact same thing. It's no problem whatsoever.

Take care,

Joe
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Wednesday, November 16th, 2022 AT 7:53 PM
Tiny
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Hehe, okay, I'll just come out and say it. There is no converter. Straight pipe. Hence the "extremely high flow." Frankly, cars run so much better without them.

No, the fuel trim did change the one or two times I nudged the gas but returned to the -7ish number.
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Thursday, November 17th, 2022 AT 12:29 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

LOL Well, that makes things a bit different. There is no change in the exhaust between the upstream and downstream sensors. So. Ugh!

The idea there is no change in the sensor usually indicates the sensor has failed. Do me a favor. With the scan tool connected, take a ride, and see how the sensor reacts. It certainly should change when you are on the throttle and off.

Let me know.

Joe
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Thursday, November 17th, 2022 AT 3:48 PM
Tiny
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Sorry, I haven't got back to you earlier. I haven't been driving it lately, as it's the holidays and I've had to get out the big guns (99 Century) to fit the packages. I'll drive it one of these days and let you know.
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Monday, December 5th, 2022 AT 10:35 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

No problem whatsoever. When you have a chance, let me know what you find or if I can help in any way. If I don't hear from you by Christmas, I hope you have a great one.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, December 6th, 2022 AT 2:21 PM
Tiny
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The vehicle seems to have developed a tiny coolant leak. Can't find it atm (guessing might be heater core starting to go) so I used the micro mail machine for a day (this thing). I did notice changes in both upstream and downstream sensors. But downstream seemed to be a laggy. That could be the scan tool. Or it could be the sensor getting old and dirty (230k). I'm thinking I'll swap it. See what it does. If better, keep it and put on the non-fouler. No better, return and still stick that non fouler in. At least maybe I can get rid of that annoying p0420 code.
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Sunday, December 18th, 2022 AT 6:17 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

It certainly won't hurt to give it a try. If you still have the original ones in the engine at 230K miles, that would likely cause the slow response. LOL

Let me know how things turn out. Also, if I don't hear from you, I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas.

Take care of yourself.

Joe
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Sunday, December 18th, 2022 AT 8:24 PM
Tiny
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Okay, so it's been a while. Working for the post office through the holiday doesn't afford much time to fix the cars, even though that's when I use them the most sadly. Anyways, I got to tinkering with this issue this morning while waiting for my sister to come out of work, and I saw this. Haven't seen one since the early 90's and didn't think anyone used them anymore. It's an idle adjuster. I tried adjusting it but to no avail. The throttle wasn't touching it anyways, even with the cables loosened and me pushing it all the way back. Just thought I'd share.
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Monday, January 30th, 2023 AT 8:24 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

Welcome back. The idle speed is controlled by the idle air control valve. The cables won't make a difference. Have you checked the IAC to make sure there isn't an issue with dirt or carbon holding the Pintel too far open?
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Monday, January 30th, 2023 AT 6:40 PM
Tiny
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I figured if it's holding the throttle open slightly, then it would bump the idle just a bit. The previous owner was a machine maintenance man at the post office and fancied himself a mechanic. You should see the horrors I've found, like the air filter that hasn't been changed in the 100+k miles he'd driven the car. I asked him when he changed it last. His response was. "What air filter?" Loose battery terminals? Stick a screw in there. Oh, any old fuse will work! As long as it has at least the right number of amps on it. I don't need to replace that cracked turn signal socket. A zip tie will work just fine. The signal will even work. Occasionally. Well, never, really.

You get the idea. Again, $300. You expect these things though.

That air filter was so dirty the MAF's filament was caked with crap. Unplugging it and running the car sans filter was better to get it home.

Anyways I'm about to drive the car with a passenger (lucky her gets to ride in my luxurious route econobox car) and will have them take video of the sensors live data. Will upload it later on today hopefully. Sorry I get so long winded. I like writing these things out in detail, so I don't miss anything and end up bloviating a bit.
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Monday, February 6th, 2023 AT 7:11 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

You had me laughing with the prior repairs. I've seen so many crazy things. LOL At last they used a zip tie on the lens. Picture scotch tape. It held for a few miles. Ugh!

Let me know what you find and also, that wasn't too long by any means. I enjoyed reading it.

Take care,

Joe
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Monday, February 6th, 2023 AT 8:38 PM
Tiny
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Okay. I finally got around to messing with it again. Now it is showing a P0171 system too lean B1S1 code. Can't find any obvious vacuum leaks so I'll have to get out the spray bottle later and tinker. But I got the video. I took two because I was shooting them myself and unsure what the quality looked like as I went. Neither is terribly good. If you want, I can retry in a few days.

The files are rather large. If need be, I can upload them to YouTube and put links here to save the storage space on your servers.
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Tuesday, March 14th, 2023 AT 2:15 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

The files are fine. It was a little hard to watch the second video because of sun glair. However, it appeared to be okay.

If you have a lean code, and you do, continue looking for vacuum leaks.

Here is a link you may find helpful:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

If there are no leaks, make sure there isn't an exhaust leak before the converter. That too can cause a lean code.

The last check is to confirm the fuel pressure is within the manufacturer's specifications.

Here is a link that explains how in general to test fuel pressure:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Pic 1 below provides the manufacturer's fuel pressure specifications. The remaining pics are the diagnostics specific to the code.

Let me know what you find.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.
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Tuesday, March 14th, 2023 AT 7:25 PM

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