Battery not charging

Tiny
XAVIER_COX
  • MEMBER
  • 2006 DODGE CHARGER
  • 3.5L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
Few months ago I noticed at idle my car would shake a little and headlights would dim until I started moving or rev my car. Cleaned the negative terminal because there was a lot of corrosion. Skip to now and the past few weeks I've been using a volt meter connected to my battery. Noticed that every time I get in my car before starting after sitting for a while two to seven hours it would read in between 11.9-12.1. While driving it would be between 14.0 - 14.4. And when starting it would never go under 10.4. Alternator was taken off and tested good they tested three times in a row all good. Battery was believed to be original OEM that was manufactured in 2005. So I replaced the battery. And today I drove on the interstate 80 mph for thirty minutes to and thirty minutes home. I let it sit for one hour came back out to the battery at 12.2. My lights don't dim as much and shaking at idle is hardly noticeable but something is stopping or slowing down my charge even with 14.4 volts for an hour. I've tested for parasite drainage with a test light and it only light up just a bit and it was flashing so I figure it was a computer waking up from connecting battery back with the test light in loop of the battery. I don't want to replace the alternator if its tested good and has good volts.
Saturday, March 16th, 2019 AT 11:51 AM

8 Replies

Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello,

This does sound like you have a parasitic draw somewhere. Battery voltage breaks down like this 12.6 volts-full charge 12.45 volts -3/4 charge 12.3 volts-1/2 charge 12.15 volts-1/4 Charge 12 volts and below-Dead. Also, if you run a battery three times it is no good anymore. Every time it is run completely dead it loses 1/3 of its charging capacity. I know, sounds like crazy talk, but that's what I was taught at North American Honda Factory Training.
Okay, I have included a couple of links for you down below.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-dead-overnight
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-load-test

Please go through them. The second one I would like you to do and record the voltage at night before you go to bed. Do the same thing in the morning when you wake up and compare the two for me. Get back to us with what you find out.

Thanks,
Alex
2carPros

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Saturday, March 16th, 2019 AT 1:58 PM
Tiny
XAVIER_COX
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  • 34 POSTS
Okay, I will look over everything and do the over night test. Just know even with the old battery and the new one if it shows 11.90 between 12.0 it will still crank over with a lot of power and doesn't go slow at all. Still pretty much instant start when I turn the key.
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Saturday, March 16th, 2019 AT 2:12 PM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello again,

I know. That is what Honda teaches though. Cars now a days are all electronic and are getting more and more that way every year. Electricity is the language that cars speak. So it is always best to have a fully charged healthy battery, or your car won't be speaking at all. In fact electricity is so important that you spend the first year out of a two year course doing nothing but electricity. That's one year electricity, one year for the rest of the whole car.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Saturday, March 16th, 2019 AT 8:24 PM
Tiny
XAVIER_COX
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Looks like that could be right. 12.6 last night 11.98 this morning. 24 degrees Fahrenheit still started like a champ.
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Monday, March 18th, 2019 AT 4:34 AM
Tiny
XAVIER_COX
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  • 34 POSTS
When I use a test light, the light comes on for thirty seconds then fades to black. That is with the negative disconnect with the test light in between the negative thermal and negative ground lead. When I disconnect the remote entry fuse the light shuts off. Then plug back in the fuse and light come on for thirty seconds then fade all the way to black from there I'm not sure. I'm not completely sure how many amp are being pulled from that thirty seconds my multi-meter blew a fuse inside it. Voltage has stayed right about 12.4 for the last day.
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Monday, March 18th, 2019 AT 3:56 PM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello again,

Yes, that is designed to do that. It's done with a diode I do believe. What we have got to figure out is what is draining your battery overnight. I have included in the diagrams down below your vehicle's manufacturer's diagnostic troubleshooting guides for parasitic draw. Please go through these guides and get back to us with what you find out.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Tuesday, March 19th, 2019 AT 4:22 AM
Tiny
XAVIER_COX
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Okay, so maybe I was reading my volts at the wrong time. Usually I would unlock my car, open my trunk, connect volt meter to battery. What I was noticing was by that point my headlights are on, my remote entry is active, trunk and interior lights are on. Now with all of that running it would test a 12.0 does that sound normal? It is usually 12.5 when everything is off.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 1:11 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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You're doing the drain test the wrong way. That test light trick worked years ago before the insane engineers put all the computers on the car, but no more. Today, with all the memory circuits in the multiple computers, the industry standard is a maximum of 35 milliamps. Chrysler says at that rate, a good, fully-charged battery will still be able to crank an engine fast enough to start after sitting for three weeks. Test lights need a lot more current than that to glow, so you could have an excessive current drain and never see it in the test light.

Since the mid '90s, the Engine Computer needs up to 20 minutes to go to "sleep" mode. Until then, it can draw up to three amps. Most digital volt / ohm / amp meters have an internal 2-amp fuse that will blow if it is on the 2-amp range. Also, if you start out on the ten-amp range, that usually requires moving the positive probe to a special jack. You can watch for 20 minutes until current drops to the normal "ignition off draw", (IOD) value which must be less than 35 milliamps, (.035A). The first problem is you need to switch to a lower range for more accuracy. That means unplugging the red lead and moving it to the common jack. You just opened the circuit, and that restarts the 20-minute counter. The computer wakes up and tries to draw three amps again. That blows the internal fuse.

Even if you did get past that problem and get a usable reading on the 2-amp range, you'll still need to switch to the 200ma range to get the needed accuracy. All volt - ohm meters use "break-before-make" switches which means as you turn the knob, it breaks the connection between the jack and the 2-amp circuitry, then it makes the connection to the 200ma circuitry. That tiny gap is enough to wake up the computer again.

What you have to do is remove the negative cable, like you did, then reconnect it with a small jumper wire. Now you can also connect the amp meter. It will read 0.00 amps because it is being bypassed by the jumper wire. After 20 minutes when the computer has gone to sleep, you can disconnect the jumper wire, then read the current on the meter. If you find you need to switch to a lower range, reconnect the jumper wire first, switch the meter, remove the jumper, then take the reading. As long as something is always connected between the battery's post and the cable clamp, once the computer has gone to sleep. It will stay that way.

You also have to fashion a way to open a door or window, if necessary, that doesn't tell the Body Computer you're there. A single interior light will draw half an amp. Most cars have multiple lights, so that can also blow the meter's fuse.

As a point of great value, removing the alternator for testing is never an acceptable way to do it. It takes over five horsepower to run a wimpy 55-amp alternator wide-open. At most, those in-store test benches have a one horsepower motor. All generators need three things to work; a wire, (coil of wire), a magnet, (we use an electromagnet), and most importantly, movement between them. Because of that needed movement, all generators are very inefficient at low speeds. All professional charging system testers require engine speed to be increased to 2,000 rpm for a few seconds for part of the test. Bench testers can't do that.

Since a bench tester can't run the alternator under full load, it can't accurately test for a failed diode. With one bad diode of the six, the most you'll be able to get for output current is exactly one-third of its rated current. The smallest of the two alternators for your car is a 140-amp unit. With a failed diode, you'll only be able to get around 45 amps during the full-load output current test. That is not enough to run the entire electrical system under all conditions. The battery will have to make up the difference until it slowly runs down over days or weeks. With such a large alternator, 45 amps could be enough to keep the engine cranking and the lights from dimming, but the battery may never become fully-charged except during long highway trips.

When a diode fails, you lose one of the three output phases, and that results in very high" ripple" voltage. Bench testers don't check for ripple voltage but all professional load testers do. A few list them with a specific voltage and those usually can make printouts. The most popular testers just show the ripple voltage from "low" to "high" on a relative bar chart. It's usually pretty obvious by looking at that chart when it's too high.

The last thing professional load testers measure is charging voltage. That is the one test you can do yourself, like you did, with a simple digital voltmeter. What you listed is perfect. The acceptable range is 13.75 to 14.75 volts. It's okay if it pops up a little higher once in a while. Since Chrysler developed the first electronic voltage regulator for 1970 models, they have all had temperature compensation built in. Charging a battery is a chemical reaction, and that occurs less efficiently at lower temperatures. Chrysler's voltage regulators increase charging voltage a few tenths of a volt in cold weather to help that charging process take place.

From what you've described, it sounds like you don't have a problem. I've been an electrical specialist since the early '70s, but I have never checked the battery voltage on any of my cars at the times you described, so I don't know what "normal" is. I do know that a computer drawing three amps for 20 minutes is comparable to leaving one head lamp bulb on for 15 minutes. That will remove the "surface charge" from the battery and make your reading a little lower. Your car is new enough that other things are taking place after you remove the ignition key. On my 2014 Ram truck, there's moving things taking place in the dash, sometimes ten or fifteen minutes after I stop the engine. What's important is you said the engine cranks fine the next morning. If you hadn't had the previous condition, you wouldn't even be working in this area or think there was a problem.
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Tuesday, March 26th, 2019 AT 7:06 PM

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