Fuel Pump

Tiny
WAYNEMERTZ
  • MEMBER
  • 57 POSTS
  • 2002 FORD EXPEDITION
  • 0.5L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 225,000 MILES
When Driving or just sometimes trying to start the engine, there is a loss of power to the fuel pump relay coil.

What would cause a situation where the Engine Control Unit
(Computer) to not send the signal to the relay?

Sometimes the engine will start shortly after going dead, more often than not it wont. I have manually thrown the coil switch to start the engine and currently, the engine is starting normally.

Just do not want to have it shut down again while driving.
Is there a sensor that could be causing this?
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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I don't know where you got that diagram but it is different from the one I got from the service manual for that vehicle.

You nee to be very careful what you are jumping there because you can fry your PCM in a heartbeat.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
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See if relay prongs have corrosion on them if they do clean off what you can and put dielectric compound on them.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
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That diagram doesn't even have a FPDM in it.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYNEMERTZ
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We have already determined that the computer is not sending a pulse to the relay. We are thinking that it is a weak or worn Crankshaft Position Sensor.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SOULSNAKE79
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Ok so let's say I was stupid and fried my pcm. Then why would my truck run off an external fuel source after I tried all the other stuff.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
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Yes, is the crank sensor is faulty the computer will not send a signal to the fuel pump replay. Is there spark at the plugs when this happens? Is so its not the sensor.

Please let us know what you find so it will help others.

Best, Ken
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
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Nobody said you fried your PCM. You ARE using the wrong wiring diagram and you need to stop trying to jump things in that circuit because you can short out the smart junction box also.
Do this, try applying power to the white wire at the Inertia switch and see if the truck starts.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYNEMERTZ
  • MEMBER
  • 57 POSTS
Not sensor because spark would not be present. What we did was removed the relay and used a jumper wire from the 15 amp fuse used by the fuel pump and jumped it to the relay. In that way, only when the ignition is on will the fuel pump work. Crappy way of doing things, but better than having the car shut down as you drive down the freeway with no steering, etc. The problem was sporadic and I just didn't trust it anymore. Probably was the computer..?
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
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No it may be the smart junction box as the relay is part o f it there was a problem with those from 2003-06 you could wire in another relay that stands alone to fix it correctly.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HOBIECAT06
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2004 FORD EXPEDITION
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 92,000 MILES
Car doesn't start on first attemp. Engine is turning over, but it won't start. I turn the key to off and retry. It starts on second attemp. Is the fuel pump relay going out and needs replacing?
Thanks
Kevin
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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Your going to have to hook up a fuel pressure gauge to see what happens when it's shut off. It should hold pressure for a good period of time. It may have a bad check valve in the pump causing all the fuel to siphon back into the tank.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NORTHGABOY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
  • 2003 FORD EXPEDITION
  • 5.4L
  • V8
  • RWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 250,000 MILES
Sometimes it will not start and other times it starts right up and runs perfectly. Whenever it doesn't start, it cranks over like crazy, however it reads no fuel pressure at the rail. When it does start, it reads plenty of fuel pressure. The battery and connections have been cleaned thoroughly, the fuel filter and fuel pump both have been replaced. Also, the fuel pump relay has been replaced.

Could this be an electrical issue? Anyone have an idea of what it could be? I have heard that it could be the actual fuse box itself, but I'm not sure if that would fix it or not. I have inspected the circuit board inside of the fuse box and it does not seem to be burned anywhere, but I'm not sure.

Can someone please help?

Thanks in advance!
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NORTHGABOY
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  • 13 POSTS
Also, by the way, I have checked and it is not giving any codes either.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NORTHGABOY
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  • 13 POSTS
And, this might be just coincidence, but it seems that when it does this that if I bang on the fuse box with the bottom of my fist 2-3 times; then it will start. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
  • 48,601 POSTS
The fuse box may not be making contact, try dielectric grease on prongs of relay and tweek a tad check for corrosion as well
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NORTHGABOY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Thanks for the answer. Actually, it was the PCM relay that was replaced as I am told that the fuel pump relay is built into the circuit board of the fuse box. I have noticed that the PCM relay seems to get pretty hot. Do I need to pull the PCM relay back out and apply dielectric grease on the prongs of that one? Is that the one you're talking about or should I apply it to all of them?
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
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No I forgot about this, this fuse box goes bad and most mechanics will put a new relay in for the fuel pump instead of replacing the fuse box it's the smart junction box that does this. Changing the pcm relay won't help
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NORTHGABOY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Ok. So, those are the classic symptoms of the fuel pump relay failing or starting to fail? Then it is not sending power to the fuel pump sometimes and sometimes it does? Then, that would explain why when it is just cranking and not starting, that I read no fuel pressure at all on the rail. Do the dealer mechanics replace the relays? I live in rural Northeast Georgia and am not sure of a mechanic to check with about this.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
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No the dealer will charge about $1500 to fix this as it needs the smart junction box replaced. I can't find the tip from one of the mechanics wrote on here. But you can just jump the box by having one installed or getting a used one.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2019 AT 10:49 AM (Merged)

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