1994 Pontiac Trans Am cooling fans running and ses light on

Tiny
MVILLEBILL
  • MEMBER
  • 1994 PONTIAC TRANS AM
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 83,000 MILES
Not sure what category this question is under ! Engine runs fine - after 5 minutes or so the ses light comes on and the cooling fans start running - shut the engine down - restart - and although the engine is warm the process pretty much repeats itself - I was getting an egr electrical code 27 - replaced the egr solenoid and it did not help - the scanner now says no trouble codes - I have not owned the car long - I believe the engine ran louder when it first started prior to having this issue - not so much the engine but perhaps something auxilary to the engine - I also replaced the temperaure sensor - the engine does not run hot - I'm not a mechanic in any sense - I do try to fix things on my own - any help is appreciated - thanks
Monday, October 26th, 2009 AT 10:38 AM

9 Replies

Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Hi mvillebill,

Thank you for the donation.

When the SES light comes on and does not record any trouble codes, possible causes are :

1. Scan tester not compatible.
2. PCM memory power supply is missing. Check the fuses.
3. Faulty PCM.

One way to find out what went wrong to trigger the SES is to use a scanner to retrieve the freeze frame data. Plug in the scanner and test drive till the SES comes on and you can get the freeze frame data.

Alternative you can try to retrieve the trouble codes by manaul means.

RETRIEVING CODES (NON -SCAN)
NOTE: On models using a 12 -terminal DLC (previously referred to as the ALDL), if a wire is present at terminal "B", inserting a jumper wire into test and ground terminals of DLC with engine running will cause fuel injected vehicles to enter field service mode. Flashes of SERVICE ENGINE SOON light will not indicate codes if this is done. On models not using a 12 -terminal DLC or not having a wire present in terminal "B", codes must be retrieved using a hand -held scan tester.

1 . Turn ignition on. DO NOT start engine. SERVICE ENGINE SOON light should glow. Locate DLC attached to control module wiring harness. Most DLC's are located under dash on driver side of vehicle. Insert jumper wire from terminal "B" (diagnostic test terminal) to terminal "A" (ground) of DLC. See Fig. 1 .


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_ALDL_12pin94TransAmFig01_1.jpg



2 . SERVICE ENGINE SOON light should begin to flash codes. Each code will be repeated 3 times. If codes are not flashed or SERVICE ENGINE SOON light does not glow, perform DIAGNOSTIC CIRCUIT CHECK in BASIC TESTING article in this section. To exit diagnostic mode, turn ignition off and remove jumper wire from DLC connector.

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Monday, October 26th, 2009 AT 3:00 PM
Tiny
MVILLEBILL
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
Thanks for your 1st response -I was able to retrieve a code 29 - secondary air injection - (AIR)- it led me to a blown fuse - replaced the fuse and the new one blows - should I look for a line fuse? And if there is one where might it be - my guess is under the dash? - Does it just sound like a short and if so where is the likely spot to look? - Thanks
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Tuesday, October 27th, 2009 AT 4:26 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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  • 41,814 POSTS
I will send some wiring diagrams under pdf format for you to understand the circuitry if you let me know your email.

The diagrams does not show up too well here.

What is the fuse that keeps blowing?
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Wednesday, October 28th, 2009 AT 9:15 AM
Tiny
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  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
Its fuse #7 under the hood - its a 20 amp id is for the air pump - there is also a relay - I have a haynes manual that is ok for some things - I'm not even sure where the air pump is - I was going to check the connections - I was guessing the problem may be at the pump - it may be the pump ! - Is the pump right under the fuse box? - I know you can't be familiar with every car on the road - I appreciate the help - I have the wiring diagrams from haynes - there is a line fuse indicated - it appears that the fog lights also run thru that line fuse and they are working ok - am I confusing the underhood fuse 7 with the line fuse - there is another fuse for the fog lights - I have also swapped out relays to attempt to eliminate that - thanks again - Bill - gardner50@comcast. Net
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Wednesday, October 28th, 2009 AT 10:58 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Hi Bill,

The Air Injection Pump is in the engine compartment, item # 9. The diagram shows the location but sorry, I could not find a better diagram in our database.

Unplug the air injection pump relay and test if the fuse still blows. If yes, then problem is caused by shorting between fuse and relay.

Fuse # 7 in underhood fuse box is the correct fuse and it only is used by the Air Injection Puump and its relay.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_EngComp94FirebirdFig01_1.jpg



Here are the diagnostics for the problem if you don't have them.

CODE 29, SECONDARY AIR INJECTION
Ignition voltage is supplied voltage when ignition is on. PCM controls air pump relay by providing a ground through one of its Quad-Drivers Modules (QDM). When relay is actuated, terminal is grounded and its monitored voltage will be low. When an output is off, its terminal voltage will be high. Each QDM has a separate fault line to indicate presence of a current fault to control module central processor.

NOTE: Test numbers refer to numbers on diagnostic chart.

1 . Code 29 will set if the PCM detects the wrong voltage potential. Test will determine if relay can be controlled by PCM.

2 . This check can detect a partially shorted coil which would cause excessive current flow. Excessive current flow to a QDM will be detected as a fault and set a code.

3 . The remaining checks will identify a circuit problem that has caused an excessive current flow or inoperative relay.

Diagnostic Aids
Check related harness connectors, including PCM harness. Check for damaged or pushed out terminals.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_Code29_94FirebirdFig30_1.jpg



https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_Code29_94FirebirdFig31a_1.jpg



https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_Code29_94FirebirdFig31b_1.jpg



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Wednesday, October 28th, 2009 AT 12:09 PM
Tiny
MVILLEBILL
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Thanks for the information - it will be helpful - the fuse does not blow with the relay out - if I wire the relay plug (e1 and e4) the fuse blows right out - does the fuse not blowing with the relay out point to the pump itself or the pump wiring - or to the PCM side of the circuit? - Thanks again for all your assistance - Bill
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Thursday, October 29th, 2009 AT 10:48 AM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
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The PCM side is not affected as voltage passes through the relay coil and directly grounding the the wire would only cause the relay to be activated.

The problem is either the wire from relay to pump or the pump itself. Unplug the pump connector and test with relay plugged, retest, if fuse does not blow, problem lies with the pump.

You can use a fused wire to apply voltage to terminal A of pump and grounding terminal C to see if the pump works.
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Thursday, October 29th, 2009 AT 1:12 PM
Tiny
MVILLEBILL
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Just want to thank you for all the assistance - hopefully I can take it from here - you got me pointed in the right direction - Bill
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Thursday, October 29th, 2009 AT 2:03 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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You are welcomed and if you require futher assistance, we will always be here for you.

Thank you for using 2carpros.

Have a nice day.
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Friday, October 30th, 2009 AT 9:08 AM

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