2000 Pontiac Grand Am Vehicle runs very rough like it is missing

Tiny
BRETT19
  • 2000 PONTIAC GRAND AM

Engine Performance problem
2000 Pontiac Grand Am 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 105000 miles

My 2000 Grand Am just recently started to run very rough when idling and when it is put into gear such as drive or reverse it will run even rougher and occasionally stall out. This has been a recent problem and I did not want to waste a bunch of money on parts that was not required to fix the problem. So I hope that you may be able to give me possible solutions.

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Tuesday, February 24th, 2009 AT 2:06 PM

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Tiny
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Hello -

To better assist you please tell me if your model is a GT or SE. Also your engine size in liter and the 8th digit of your VIN.

Please go to Auto Zone (AZ) or O'Reilly's (OR) and for FREE they can pull the codes to the car. Most important: Once they check your codes, if they find something and you don't get it fixed and need to get back with us, please make sure you tell us exactly what the code was, number and all. Example, if the code was E0568 O2 Sensor bad. Then make sure you give us all of that. While there for FREE also they can bring their tester out and check your battery and alternator.

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Tuesday, February 24th, 2009 AT 2:34 PM
Tiny
BRETT19
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It is a SE with a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder. I would take it to one of those shops but I can't go very far without the car stalling out. Could it be the spark plugs?

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Tuesday, February 24th, 2009 AT 5:59 PM
Tiny
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Hello -

Thanks for the info.

Okay - you can still go to AZ or OR and use their tool check out program and bring the code scanner home and check the codes yourself.

Good idea about the spark plugs. But the stalling when going into gear may mean something else.

It could be several things which is why we want to check for codes.

It could be the torque converter locking up.

The rough idle could be a sticking EGR valve, the IAC, MAF etc.

Try to get the code scanner and check the codes.

Also check the TCC

Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid (Except 1.9L)
NOTE: Some solenoids may have an internal pressure switch in series with the solenoid winding and will not show continuity until transmission hydraulic pressure is applied.
Disconnect Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid harness connector. Using DVOM, measure resistance between appropriate TCC solenoid terminals. Solenoid resistance should be greater than 20 ohms.

Let me know

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Tuesday, February 24th, 2009 AT 11:19 PM
Tiny
BRETT19
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I did go to AZ and the code that came up was that one or multiple cylinders misfiring. I replaced all four spark plugs, both ignition coils and the air idle control. After driving the car for maybe five miles it stalled out and the exaust system was glowing red hot. I actually had to get the vehicle towed back to my house. Could it be the crank sensor? I would appreciate any other help you may be able to offer. This may help as well I have copied the problem code from AZ.

Trouble Code: P0300
Multiple Engine Misfire Detected
Possible Causes:
" Base engine mechanical fault that affects one or more cylinders
" Fuel metering fault that affects more than one cylinder
" Fuel pressure too low or too high, fuel supply contaminated
" EVAP system problem or the EVAP canister is fuel saturated
" EGR valve is stuck open or PCV system has a vacuum leak
" IC control circuit is shorted to ground (an intermittent fault)
" Ignition system fault (a coil) that affects more than one cylinder
" TSB 87-65-08 contains a repair procedure for this code
" TSB 03-06-04-030 contains a repair procedure for this code
" TSB 03-06-04-055 contains a repair procedure for this code

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Sunday, March 8th, 2009 AT 11:16 AM
Tiny
BLUEMYSTC5
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If your exuast is that hot sounds like you might have problems with the catalytic converter

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Sunday, March 8th, 2009 AT 2:43 PM
Tiny
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Hello -

Okay brett19 - great job on the info. Sorry the car broke down but the good is we are getting more info. So hang in there. You are doing a great job! . Thanks for that!

When you say the exhaust was glowing red. Was it the exhaust manifold or the catalytic converter?

Though I would like to wait until I get an answer before I suggest things. We will press anyway and kind of go back and forth and I will try not to have you do something you don't need too.

Please turn ignition off. Perform a visual inspection of the following. Check vacuum hoses for splits, kinks and proper routing. Check for leaks at throttle body, intake manifold, EGR valve and PCV system. Check PCM grounds for proper connection. Check injector harness connectors for proper installation.

I would really like to know what the fuel pressure is. You do this by: Turn ignition off. Install fuel pressure gauge. Start engine and allow it to idle. Fuel pressure should be 42-55 psi

Though you changed all of this, please make sure you get a good spark. Disconnect spark plug boot from companion cylinder at ignition coil housing and install a fused jumper wire between ground and spark plug connector at ignition coil housing (1-4 or 2-3). Crank engine and check for spark. Is there a spark present at all cylinders?

Turn ignition off. Remove spark plug boot assemblies from affected coil at IC housing. Connect a DVOM between the secondary ignition coil terminals (spark plug connectors 1-4 or 2-3) at ignition coil housing. Resistance should be 4000-8000 ohms. What is it?

Do you have an alarm system that was installed on the vehicle? After searching through about 200 TSBs, I saw this one?

Misfire DTCs P0300, P1380, P1381 and Catalytic Converter Damage Due to Installation of Alarm Systems
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Number(s): 02-06-05-004b, Date of Issue: February 14, 2006
Affected Model(s): 2006 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks; 2006 and Prior HUMMER H2, H3; 2006 and Prior Isuzu Light Duty Trucks
Supercedes: This bulletin is being revised to add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-05-004A (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
Related Ref Number(s): 02-06-05-004, 02-06-05-004A, 02-06-05-004B
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
General Motors Engineering, in an effort to determine the root cause of catalytic converter damage, has determined that aftermarket alarm systems incorrectly installed in vehicles have the potential to cause misfire codes and damage to the converter. These alarm systems use a circuit interrupt which utilizes the ignition circuit on the vehicles.
You may be running rich - so that is what I need to know what item on the exhaust is glowing red? If you want to at least get back with me on that before you do the other things that is okay.

Thank you BlueMystc5 for your suggestion. He may have that but we need to do a few more checks to make sure.

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Sunday, March 8th, 2009 AT 7:01 PM
Tiny
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It definitely was not the manifold directly connected to the engine. It was glowing hot right underneath the driver/passenger area of the exhaust. There is a enlarged part of the exhaust at this location is this the catylitic convertor? I am not 100% sure what this convertor looks like. It was where the exhaust system actually bolts together. Also when the car is started now the whole exhaust system vibrates very bad. There is no alarm system on the vehicle.

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Sunday, March 8th, 2009 AT 7:25 PM
Tiny
BILDO76
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Sounds to me like the catalytic converter may be plugged or the engine is running very lean. If the engine was running that lean then it should have showed up when you had the codes checked at AZ. And also should be glowing red at the exhaust manifold and not under the car. If the converter is plugged then they should have the correct tools to diagnose this at your local exhaust shop.

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Sunday, March 8th, 2009 AT 9:55 PM
Tiny
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Hello -

Okay........it wasn't the exhaust manifold..............that connects to a pipe that goes into the catalytic converter.........then there is a pipe from the converter to the muffler, then from the muffler out the tail..........

In the pic below what was red?


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Exhaust_1.jpg



Was there a rotten egg smell or any color smoke out the tail?

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Sunday, March 8th, 2009 AT 10:08 PM
Tiny
BRETT19
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It would have been pipe 1 and the catylitic convertor glowing red hot.

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Monday, March 9th, 2009 AT 9:34 PM
Tiny
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Hello -

Sorry so long to get back with you......having some computer problems - major ones, so please bear with me as I limp along here.

Well, you can either take it to a muffler shop to check to see if the cat collapsed or disconnect the exhaust where it connects to the exhaust manifold and move it out of the way a little and fire it up.

If it fires right up.........your cat is plugged.

Now the thing that concerns me though is the code you got........if it is running to lean the that can damage your cat............so the lean problem will have to be fixed.

Thanks for the info on the alarm system........as you saw that has caused problems but we can eliminate that one.

Did you ever get a chance to perform a visual inspection of the following. Check vacuum hoses for splits, kinks and proper routing. Check for leaks at throttle body, intake manifold, EGR valve and PCV system. Check PCM grounds for proper connection. Check injector harness connectors for proper installation. That was one of the things to check for that code? Look really good!

Next, I would really like to know what the fuel pressure is. Did you ever get a chance to do that? You do this by: Turn ignition off. Install fuel pressure gauge. Start engine and allow it to idle. Fuel pressure should be 42-55 psi

What about checking the coils - though you changed all of this, please make sure you get a good spark. Disconnect spark plug boot from companion cylinder at ignition coil housing and install a fused jumper wire between ground and spark plug connector at ignition coil housing (1-4 or 2-3). Crank engine and check for spark. Is there a spark present at all cylinders?

Turn ignition off. Remove spark plug boot assemblies from affected coil at IC housing. Connect a DVOM between the secondary ignition coil terminals (spark plug connectors 1-4 or 2-3) at ignition coil housing. Resistance should be 4000-8000 ohms. What is it?

Check the Evaporation canister to see if it is saturated with fuel......


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_FIG_10_1.jpg



Other things that can cause the vehicle to run rich is your engine coolant sensor, MAP and IAT sensor.

With it getting that hot please really check over your O2 sensor for damage........that would also cause it to run rich but it should have thrown a code.

If you have a digital volt meter I can send you some checks for the ECT and IAT....if you want that let me know and tell me about what the outside air temp would be as the engine should be about that.......

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Tuesday, March 10th, 2009 AT 7:47 PM
Tiny
CBITTEL1962ATTNET
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That sounds like alot of good advice but, If you change everything on the car like the mech. Is suggesting you will finaly get it correct $1000 later.

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Thursday, February 7th, 2013 AT 8:37 PM
Tiny
MIDNITE007
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Having the same issues with a 2000 grand am SE1. Car runs VERY hot.

Have changed out filled and bleed the coolant system over the past yr have changed out the coolant tank water pump radiator ( recently ) as well as the ECS and thermostat. At one point the ECS wasn't working to the point that is was needed to turn on the AC to cool the coolant with the car but since the new radiator and ECS have been replaced the car now gets to 2-3 lines over 200 and the fans kick on and cool it back to around 200 maybe a line over. However the CAR is still piping hot and constantly gets hot once the fans go back off and then turn on again as the ECS calls for them ( I know this is normal but the CAR is not staying cool once the fans turn off it immediately starts climbing again ) also it wont shift into drive once its running that hot altho the temp in the car says 200 or a little over the trans seems to slip a few seconds till it grabs and shifts into gear ( im assuming due to the heat ) any ideas? I am very concerned over the heat of the car as it seems very abnormal to run like that. Thanks for any help

Midnite

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Sunday, August 3rd, 2014 AT 10:17 PM

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