Code P0411, car shaking and shutting off?

Tiny
SHAY85
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 CHEVROLET MALIBU
  • 2.5L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 117,000 MILES
I purchased this car in December and the p0411 code came on. We have changed the secondary air flow valve, and the oxygen sensor. The car will run approximately 20 to 30 minutes and will start to shake and shut off. We replaced the throttle body due to launch scanner stating it was sticking. The codes were clear, the car drove fine for an hour 1 day and the next day it started doing the shaking again.
Saturday, April 8th, 2023 AT 10:43 AM

7 Replies

Tiny
AL514
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,110 POSTS
Hello, and you're still getting the P0411 code? There is a Technical Service Bulletin on this issue, caused by carbon build up in the secondary air injection ports in the cylinder head. Will post the TSB for you. With direct injection fuel systems, there is a high carbon build up that occurs on the intake valves. This happens will all GDI type systems, because there is no fuel injector behind the intake valves that clears the valves of this carbon. It must be removed manually.
If you haven't had the intake valves cleaned yet by this mileage, there is guaranteed carbon build up on the valves. It's a service that should be regularly done with other major service work. It is just a downfall of these high-pressure fuel systems. A walnut blasting is the best way to have it done.
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Saturday, April 8th, 2023 AT 1:26 PM
Tiny
SHAY85
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Sorry for the delay, email full. We did try to clean the intake, we saw some videos regarding some expansion plugs, to remove clean and replace but my car doesn't have those plugs. I took it to a Chevrolet dealer, and they didn't mention any of this. Just to replace fuse box, replace the throttle due to being after market, PCV hose, oil cap and to do a fuel injection cleaning. All has been done so far except fuel injection being cleaned. Also no one had meaning to replace the secondary air pump. So frustrated.
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Monday, April 24th, 2023 AT 8:52 PM
Tiny
SHAY85
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  • 4 POSTS
2013 malibu LT 2.5 engine. I'm starting to think the person who sold the car did some type of toying with this car.
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Monday, April 24th, 2023 AT 8:53 PM
Tiny
AL514
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,110 POSTS
The video on the expansion plugs, were they showing plugs that go into the cylinder head with the intake manifold off? There are secondary air injection plugs in the cylinder head. They are removable for cleaning purposes. But if you have a Launch scan tool, that is a pretty capable scan tool. And with this code (P0411), there should be a live data PID for the "Secondary Air Injection Pressure sensor". Going through the live data PIDs for the engine computer with it running you should be able to see if there is a pressure reading for that sensor. It might be labelled (AIR) pressure sensor as well. But see if there is a data PID that reads "Desired" and "Actual" for that sensor. The Launch is a decent scan tool. The Desired is what the engine computer is expecting to see according to its programmed and learned values. The Actual is what it is actually seeing, if there is a difference, that would be why the code is setting.
When you did the intake manifold cleaning, did you remove it from the engine and check the intake valves and intake runners in the cylinder head? Thats how you would see the carbon build up that happens with GDI direct injection systems. It gets so bad it's almost unbelievable.
Here are some causes that will set that code. The code is an "Incorrect Flow Detected" code, it's not a circuit code or performance code. So, I would check those data PIDs and if they're not what they should be, consider getting a look at the cylinder head intake ports.
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Tuesday, April 25th, 2023 AT 2:46 PM
Tiny
SHAY85
  • MEMBER
  • 4 POSTS
Yes, that is correct, it's a YouTube video that are showing plugs that go into the cylinder head with the intake manifold off. When we removed the part shown below off and removed the gasket, there were no expansion plugs, the ports on mine are really small, but we did not remove the entire intake and intake runners in the cylinder head. Only remove the part I attached and the gasket and replaced the gasket.
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Tuesday, April 25th, 2023 AT 3:02 PM
Tiny
AL514
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,110 POSTS
Were you able to see the tops of the intake valves? Like this? I do see there are two different setups for this vehicle.
Okay, I did find some good information for you on that code, this should help with diagnosing the issue. The 5th diagram shows that the pressures for setting this code are very slight. Service info is saying at least 0.7 psi greater or 1.1 PSI less than "predicted" system pressure. Thats not much of a pressure range to set this code.
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Tuesday, April 25th, 2023 AT 3:20 PM
Tiny
AL514
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,110 POSTS
There is a flow chart to follow as well, if finding the issue is getting to be difficult, It's a 3 section flow chart, System Verification, Circuit Testing, and then Component Testing, I will post it all so you can print it out if you want to follow it through to diagnose what might be happening. Diagrams 1 to 4 are System Verify, 5 to 9 are Circuit Testing, and the 10 and 11 are Component Testing. This is the complete diagnostic chart for that code.
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Tuesday, April 25th, 2023 AT 3:57 PM

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