1999 Dodge Durango Brake Squeel after short time with new p

Tiny
MYSHARRONA
  • MEMBER
  • 1999 DODGE DURANGO
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 155,000 MILES
Hi guys,

After a short time, say 3 weeks from installing a fresh set of new front disk pads on newer rotors, whether ceramic or OEM versions, they begin to squeel loudly when coming to a slow stop. This changes some when moisture changes in the ambient air. I was told by the local Brakes Plus boys the entire front end needs replacing as the seals for many of the ball joints are shot and leaking grease into the brake assemblies causing this to happen. The seals are indeed shot but no visible signs of grease on the rear of the brake shields where grease could possibly leak in. Makes me think they are lying. What is your opinion on this.
This has a lot of mileage on it with relatively few problems which is a rare thing for a Durango from what I hear. The second question I have is that when I make a sharp left hand turn after going only 3 miles the transmission seems to slip some and quickly regains traction. Doesn't happen after fully warmed up nor when turning right. Fluid levels always normal. At 155,000 miles and regular filter and fluid changes ( 3-4 times over the life) I would say she has done pretty well for a Dodge and either I need some new fluid, may need replacing soon. What is your opinion on this also. Thanks so much for the help. Small donation on it's way after you email me your feedback.

- Mike

updated 3-24-09
Yes, I used brake ( hi -temp, specifically for brakes) grease on all pad sliders and points the pads touch any mounts. I didn't use anti - squeal on the pad surfaces though as I have never had to in any vehicle before. Please confirm you mean that this anti-squeal material is applied to the pad surface interfacing the rotor and tell me more why I need to do it now, what this material is and does scientifically so that I know.

Pads are indeed chamfered and look much like your pictures.

Do I need to replace the pads again turn the rotors and apply this anti-squeel material or?

Thanks.
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Monday, March 23rd, 2009 AT 6:55 PM

5 Replies

Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Ok I am not going to get into a battle with a local shop but with what you are saying I don't think this is causing your squeel. Sure those parts may be in need of replacement but not you squeel problem. Now you said you changed the pads and rotors but you didn't say weather or not you put any anti sqeel on the metal side of the pads and if you cleaned and grease the sliders (with brake grease). If not then I would recomend doing this. The next question I have are the edges of the pads shamfered? Meaning that the edges look like the pic included. The edges are angled.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_80e3842d6343b310_1.jpg

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Tuesday, March 24th, 2009 AT 10:40 AM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Anti squeel is applied to the metal part of the pad at the points that touch the caliper or caliper piston, NOT on the pad surface that contacts the rotor. Apply like so see pics below.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_quiet1_1.jpg



Should end looking like this


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/249564_quiet2_1.jpg

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Tuesday, March 24th, 2009 AT 7:48 PM
Tiny
MYSHARRONA
  • MEMBER
Thanks for the great picture, and NO I didn't ever use that much on that surface. So this anti-squeel will can fix the squeal of the PADs as the rotor rotats past them. Hmmm, it seems the sound it coming from the pad contacting the rotor itself, not the piston hitting the back of the pad. Is that right?

Thanks guys.
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Tuesday, March 24th, 2009 AT 8:02 PM
Tiny
RACEFAN966
  • EXPERT
Yea this is true which then makes it vibrate and transfers through the caliper and you get to hear it. So doing this on the metal side of the pads may fix it by stopping the vibration. It is the only thing I can think of if you have done everything else and nothing is like majorly loose. Let me know how it goes.
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Tuesday, March 24th, 2009 AT 8:34 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Finally, someone who understands brake squeal. Racefan966 hit it on the head!

As far as "I never had to do that before", we never used to over-complicate things with unreliable computers either, and cars worked just fine. :)

We used to have brake linings made from asbestos and brake squeal was virtually unheard of. Today, you can't buy linings that cheap. Semi-metallic pads last longer but they require more pressure and, ... Well, ... They squeal.

The chamfer you put on the edges should not be too extreme because you loose the squeegee action that removes water to prevent brake fade. Experience has shown if you just remove a little material with a file so it doesn't squeal during the break-in period, it won't squeal later either. I even had good luck just rubbing the leading edges of the linings on the cement floor. If you make the chamfer too deep across the lining's surface, you loose too much friction material and in the case of a crash, even if the other guy is at fault, a good lawyer will have a field day if he finds that modification.

Remember too that manufacturers do a lot of research into designing a brake system that is balanced front to rear. Removing too much material from the pads could lead to premature rear wheel lockup. Bargain brand linings could have a coefficient of friction different than what the manufacturer designed and could lead to the front or rear having less stopping power than the other axle. Name brand manufacturers design their linings to match the original equipment to maintain balance from front to rear. If the rear brakes don't stop as hard as they're designed to, the front brakes will always work harder than normal. The corresponding overheating of the linings will cause glazing from the binders in the material. This type of squeal can often be eliminated by lightly machining the rotors. Before the resulting grooves wear off, they will chew the glazing off the pads. Sanding the linings with a course sandpaper works too but doesn't seem to be as effective.

If the anti-squeal material you're using doesn't work for more than a few weeks, try molybdenum disulfide. It is a grease, not a glue. "Moly-lube" is usually black or gray, but there is a copper-colored lube with the trade name Rusty Lube. I had real good luck with that stuff. The entire backing plate doesn't have to be coated; just the points of contact with the piston, the outer fingers of the caliper, and where the pads and caliper contact the steering knuckle or caliper mount. Caliper slide bolts should be coated lightly too.

Brake pads will vibrate. As proof, we used to have to install anti-squeal insulators that looked like heavy construction paper. When you replaced those pads, the paper was all bunched up inside the caliper's piston like a wadded up diaper. (There's a word I never thought I'd type)! The glues that come with some pads or you can get in a bottle are meant to stop the pads from moving, thereby, stopping them from vibrating. Ain't gonna happen. The pads will insist on moving, and the high-temperature greases are meant to lubricate the backs of the pads so they can move freely without setting up a vibration.

The highest quality pads seem to squeal the worst. Also, just before you install the pads and caliper, check both sides of the rotor for greasy fingerprints. Wash them off if you find any. One shop manager here in town used to make his techs get a different new set of pads if they got any spots of grease on the friction surfaces, but I've found that if you wash off any grease before the pads get hot, the grease won't soak in or cause a problem.

One last thing I don't personally recommend is cutting a slot across the short dimension of the lining, about 3/4 the way through, with a hacksaw. A lot of Hondas and Toyotas used to come with pads that were cut. Some people think it is supposed to double the frequency of the squeal so only your dog would hear it, but it is really to prevent brake fade from gasing of the linings. I did this once in an attempt to try anything to get the pads to stop squealing, ... And it worked!

Caradiodoc
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Wednesday, March 25th, 2009 AT 2:48 AM

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