Rough Idle When Warm

Tiny
X2006NZL
  • 2002 SATURN VUE

Hello all, I have a 2002 Saturn Vue V6 AWD, when it's warm it idles rough sometimes it will even idle so high that it makes the "Service Engine Soon" Light come on, sometimes on start up it will also idle so rough like it seems it wants to die.
When I hooked my scanner up I got 3 codes and the following live data:
P0507- Idle Air Control System RPM Higher Than Expected
The Live data for this code is:
FREEZE FRAME:
Fuel Sys 1 CL
Fuel Sys 2 CL
Calc LOAD (%) 2.3
ECT (F) 208
STFT B1 (%) 18.7
LTFT B1 (%) 0
STFT B2 (%) 18.7
LTFT B2 (%) 0.7
Eng RPM 920
Veh Speed (mph) 0
Then codes
P0174 System Too Lean (Bank 2)
P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1)
Anyone have this problem or any suggestions?
thanks

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 3:58 PM

17 Replies

Tiny
KHLOW2008
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  • 42,009 POSTS

Check for vacuum leaks. A bad PCV valve can cause the problems indicated.

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 4:59 PM
Tiny
X2006NZL
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Also just more information, sometimes when warm after being driven and put into park, it will idle high slowly reaching 2000+ without hitting the gas and that caused me to get codes p0300 p0301 p0302 and p0303 any other ideas with that information thanks

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 5:54 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Still the same answer for now. If there are no vacuum leaks and P0507 is still present, check the wiring connectors for contaminations, corrosion etc.

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Just to add to this one I belive those codes P0171 and P0174 there is a bulletin to replace the spring clips in the upper intake plentuim and retorque the intake bolts. It causes a vacuum leak and sets those codes. Have never seen it cause a high idle that but anything is possible if it goes unfixed long enough. Also on the drivers side of the upper intake plentuim there is a spring load pop off valve.I have seem them stick open and cause no starts high idles etc.

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 6:44 PM
Tiny
X2006NZL
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Also if I use my scanner to erase the codes it drops down to the right idle immediately only seems to idle rough when the codes are there so I just need to get rid of the codes, is the spring load pop off valve the small round metal with plastic and a spring held by 2 torx screws on the side of the intake?
Thanks

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 11:11 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Yes thats the pop off valve you found it I will look up that bulletin for you for those codes.P

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 11:14 PM
Tiny
X2006NZL
  • MEMBER

Thanks for the help, I will swap out the pop off valve tommorrow

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Friday, August 10th, 2012 AT 11:55 PM
Tiny
CAROLINACARCONNECTION
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Just looked at something. When were those live data report taken? Cold or warm?

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 12:22 AM
Tiny
X2006NZL
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Warm, I got the codes after a 30 minute drive came home put in park idled rough and made the service engine soon light come on
thanks

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 12:54 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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No need to swap the valve just look at it when its acting up you can clearly see if its not seated closed. Also with those codes there is bulletin I have performed many times. The intake plentuim bolts loosen up and you have to retorque them.

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 1:06 AM
Tiny
CAROLINACARCONNECTION
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  • 67 POSTS

OK. THE ONLY REASON I CHIMED IN IS BECAUSE I SAW THE ENGINE COOLANT TEMP WAS 208 WHICH IF THE ENGINE WAS ACTUALLY COLD THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PROBLEM BUT IT WAS WARM SO MY THOUGHT IS OUT THE WINDOW

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 1:07 AM
Tiny
X2006NZL
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Alright thanks so i'm assuming it's the red box in this picture?

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 2:06 AM
Tiny
X2006NZL
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Also would it be possible to email me that service bulletin to oddsnends34@gmail. Com?
Thanks

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 2:07 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Print

2002 Saturn Vue

?
(MIL) SERVICE ENGINE SOON TELLTALE ILLUMINATED WITH DTCS P0171 AND/OR P0174 (RETORQUE INTAKE MANIFOLD VACUUM CHAMBER BOLTS, INSTALL VACUUM CHAMBER SPRINGS)

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN

Reference Number(s): 02-06-01-016A, Date of Issue: March 24, 2003

SATURN:

2002-2003 VUE - Built Up To and Including VIN Breakpoint 3S854417 with 3.0L, V6 Engine (VIN R - RPO L81)

SECTION:

06 - Engine/Propulsion

Superceded Bulletin(s): 02-06-01-016, 02-T-28
NOTE: This bulletin is being revised due to a change in Parts Requirements. Please discard bulletin 02-T-28 (Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-01-016, Section 06 - Engine).

CONDITION

Some customers may comment on the (MIL) SERVICE ENGINE SOON telltale being illuminated. (DTC(s) P0171 - Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 1 and/or DTC P0174 - Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 2 may be set and stored in the ECM memory.)

CAUSE

This condition may be caused by insufficient torque on the intake manifold vacuum chamber bolts. Under deceleration, enough vacuum can be created inside the intake manifold to lift the vacuum chamber off it's seal creating an intermittent vacuum leak.

CORRECTION

Refer to the service procedure in this bulletin to retorque the intake manifold vacuum chamber bolts and install the vacuum chamber springs.

PROCEDURE

NOTE: When servicing intake manifold, do not use power tools. Damage to threads or manifold may occur.
1. Loosen clamp at air cleaner assembly and throttle body assembly.
2. Remove attachment bolts from outlet resonator/duct assembly.
3. Remove outlet resonator/duct assembly.
Fig 1: Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly

4. Remove outlet resonator/duct assembly bracket from manifold.
Fig 2: Assembly Bracket

5. Remove 16 (10 around outside, 6 on inside) intake manifold top cover bolts and cover. Fig 3
Fig 3: Cover Bolts And Cover

6. Remove vacuum chamber and apply Loctite(tm) 242, P/N 21485277 (in Canada, P/N 12345382), or equivalent, to the bolts and reinstall.
7. Torque vacuum chamber bolts according to torque sequence shown (Fig 4 ). Torque 2.5 N.M (22 in-lbs).
Fig 4: Torque Sequence

8. Install vacuum chamber springs, P/N 93175463, on vacuum chamber as shown in Fig 5.
Fig 5: Vacuum Chamber Springs

9. Ensure sleeve seals are in position on manifold top cover and install cover into position.
10. Apply Loctite(tm) 242, P/N 21485277 (in Canada, P/N 12345382), or equivalent, to all 16 top cover bolts and hand start.
11. Torque 10 bolts around outside of cover as shown (Fig 6 ). Torque 10 Outside Intake Manifold To Cover-to-Manifold Bolts 4 N.M (35 in-lbs).
Fig 6: Outside Bolts

12. Torque 6 bolts on inside of cover as shown (Fig 7 ). Torque 6 Inside Intake Manifold Top Cover-to-Manifold Bolts: 4.4 N.M 39 (in-lbs).
Fig 7: Inside Bolts

13. Install outlet resonator/duct assembly bracket to intake manifold. Torque Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly Bracket-to-Intake Manifold Nuts: 5 N.M (44 in-lbs).
14. Install outlet resonator/duct assembly into position.
15. Tighten clamp at throttle body assembly.
16. Position outlet resonator/duct assembly to support bracket and install bolts. Torque Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolts: 10 N.M (89 in-lbs).
17. Tighten clamp at air cleaner assembly.
18. Verify Repair as follows:1. Connect Scan Tool to the vehicle.
2. Navigate to the 3.0L (VIN B) menu.
3. Select DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTC).
4. Select CLEAR DTC INFORMATION, this will zero the short and long term fuel trim information.
5. Navigate to the Powertrain Menu and Select DATA DISPLAY.
6. Select ENGINE DATA DISPLA.
7. Select FUEL AND EMISSIONS.

19. Monitor the following data:1. Short Term FT Bank 1
2. Short Term FT Bank 2

20. Start the engine, the Short Term FT will remain at 0% until the vehicle enters closed loop operation (approximately 5 seconds). Does the Short Term FT Bank 1 or 2 exceed 5% during the first 10 seconds of closed loop operation? (After 10 seconds, the Short Term FT readings can be affected by EVAP canister purge vapors).1. If yes, there is still a lean condition present, refer to DIAGNOSTIC AIDS for P0171/P0174 in the 2002-2003 VUE Powertrain Electrical Diagnostics Service Manual.
2. If no, vehicle is repaired.

PARTS INFORMATION

PARTS INFORMATION

Part Number

Description

21485277 (U.S.) - 10953489 (Canada)

Loctite(tm) 242 Threadlocker

93175463

Vacuum Chamber Spring

CLAIM INFORMATION

To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J5520 (Inlet Air Control Vacuum Reservoir - Replace), or if another procedure is performed, refer to the appropriate Electronic Labor Time Guide for the correct Labor Operation Code and Time.

IMPORTANT: Loctite(tm) 242 Threadlocker is required to be applied to 24 bolts. Claims received in the amount of retailer cost plus 40 % parts allowance will be accepted for the material required to perform the repair. It will be necessary to sell Loctite(tm) 242 to the CSO as "material" using net item code "M". Claims exceeding the amount of $2.48 (cost $1.77 x 1.4 parts allowance) will be returned with return reason 143 - material amount greater than maximum allowed.

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 3:08 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Yes thats the intake I will get you the torque pattern diagram shortly.

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 3:12 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Here you go I would start by performing that bulletin its a very common thing to happen on those. Let me know what you find.

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Saturday, August 11th, 2012 AT 3:22 AM
Tiny
DBLOCK802
  • MEMBER

I have this same problem. Only I get a intermittent blinking ses light and code p0303 also code for both banks running lean. Have done fuel filter and primary pump as it was also intermittently stalling. Put a new cps in it today which seemed to take care of the stalling now I've gottenthe blinking light. Anybody have the same issue?

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Sunday, June 14th, 2015 AT 6:43 PM

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