1980 Jeep CJ5 Ignition problems

Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
  • 1980 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 60,000 MILES
Bought this jeep and it ran great. It's got a lot of corrosion on every thing though. I was messing with the headlights one night and accidentally left the ignition on. Next day I jumped it and it's been acting up every since. I replaced the solenoid, ignition module, coil, plug wires, and put the larger ford distributor on. And changed the distributor pick up coil. Now sometimes it will start but it's missing like crazy. It was running good last night after I changed the pick up. Then it died mid test drive. I got it fired up but it sounded like one cylinder. I've been through the wires. Cleaned grounds. Im losing my mind.
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Thursday, April 2nd, 2015 AT 3:15 PM

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Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
HOW LONG DID IT RUN GREAT WHEN YOU GOT IT?

HAD IT SET FOR A LONG TIME?

SORTA WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IT?

HAVE YOU TAKEN THE BATTERY TO THE PARTS STORE FOR A THOROUGH TESTING? (DON'T BUY NOTHING ELSE, TILL YOU SEE THIS LINK)

http://www.2carpros.com/questions/2001-dodge-neon-milage-just-want-put-fliuds-their-locations

HAVE YOU WASHED THE ENGINE?

TELL ME EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN REPLACED

HAVE YOU TINKERED WITH THE CARB?

TOOLS? TIMING LIGHT? DWELL/ TACH METER?

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC
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Thursday, April 2nd, 2015 AT 3:52 PM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
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It ran well for a couple weeks. Until the great "left the key on" incident. I haven't had it long enough to anything with it. Except drive 5 miles to the base for work. I haven't had the battery tested. I've replaced the starter solenoid, coil, ignition module, plug wires, pick up coil, cap, rotor and an ignition switch that didn't work installed on the column but worked when I took it out and used a tiny screw driver. So I put the old one back in. It didn't make a difference anyways.
I haven't messed with the carb. The fella before me rebuilt it and it was running cherry.
I only have a timing light right now.
We just PCS'd here and my wife hasn't found work yet. So she's on me pretty good about dumping a bunch of cheddar into this ol girl. But she was so fun for the couple weeks she worked.
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Thursday, April 2nd, 2015 AT 4:35 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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WHERE YOU STATIONED?

JEEP WILL BE INEXPENSIVE TO WORK ON

UNLESS WE REBUILD THE ENGINE/ TRANNY/ TRANSFER CASE/ AXLES (WELL MAYBE NOT IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF) I USED MY TRANSMISSION CASE, AND REPLACED ALL OF THE INTERNALS (MYSELF) WITH BRAND NEW EVERYTHING, IT RAN ME $840, REBUILT MY ENGINE W/ CLUTCH, IT WAS ABOUT $1500 (THAT WAS IN '95) IT MAY HAVE INCREASED ABOUT $200 OR LESS NOW DAYS. STILL, INEXPENSIVE COMPARED TO A NEWER RIG!

SO YOU HAD THE DISTRIBUTOR OUT OF THE ENGINE?

"ignition switch that didn't work installed on the column but worked when I took it out and used a tiny screw driver"

PLEASE 'SPLAIN THIS BETTER ('SPECIALLY THE TINY SCREWDRIVER PART), KEY CYLINDER? IGNITION SWITCH IS OVER YOUR FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DASH ON THE COLUMN. WHAT'D YOU DO, HOW DID YOU ACCESS IT? DID YOU CUT WIRES?

I CAN GET YOU GOING, IF YOU ANSWER STUFF AND CAN FOLLOW MY HILLBILLY LIKE DIRECTIONS

DO YOU HAVE A CHEAP VOLTMETER? (HARBOR FREIGHT $5)

THE MEDIC
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Thursday, April 2nd, 2015 AT 5:01 PM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
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Hillbilly is my first language.
I'm at Moody AFB, in Georgia.
I did not take out the distributor. I was trying to avoid that at this time.
I didn't cut any wires on the ignition switch. I just reached up and unplugged them. I removed the old switch and installed the new one one the column under the dash. When I tried to start the jeep it wouldn't go. It was almost like the rod would move the switch far enough to engage the start circuit. So I put the old one back on.
Today for giggles, I unplugged the wires and plugged them into the new switch. I ran a tiny screwdriver through the rod hole and started the jeep that way. It works, just not when it's on the jeep.
I had a cheap volt meter but it crapped out on me.
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Thursday, April 2nd, 2015 AT 5:12 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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WILL THE ROD AND LOCK CYLINDER MOVE FREELY NOT BEING IN THE IGN SWITCH?

THERE ARE 2 IGNITION SWITCHES. ONE FOR "TILT COLUMN" THE OTHER IS FOR A "STRAIGHT COLUMN". DID YOU GET THE RIGHT ONE?

I HAVEN'T YET (I'VE TAKEN SO MANY FOR OTHER STUFF) I CAN MAYBE CRAM MY CAMERA IN THERE AND MAYBE GET A PIC TO SEE IF YOU ARE INSTALLED CORRECTLY

AUGUSTA IS A BIT MORE CLOSER TO ME, IT'S ABOUT THE CLOSEST HALFWAY POINT I CAN REFERENCE TO YOU.

DON'T KNOW YOUR SITUATION, I WAS STATIONED IN SAVANNAH (WHEN NOT ON A DEPLOYMENT), AGE 19+, AT HUNTER ARMY AIRFIELD '83-'87. SPRING BREAK-JACKSONVILLE, FL NEED I SAY MORE? ST. PATRICK'S DAY IN SAVANNAH IS CLOSE TO THE SAME KINDA DEAL!

READY TO SEE IF YOUR DISTRIBUTOR WIRES CORRECT, NEED A WRENCH OR RATCHET (PREFERRED) TO DO THIS (SEE MY 1ST PIC)

ALSO GONNA NEED TO REMOVE #1 SPARK PLUG

LEMME KNOW WHEN YOU ARE READY, I HAVE PLENTY OF HOMEMADE PICS TO GUIDE YOU ALONG IN CHECKING STUFF

DWELL/ TACH, MIGHT BE FOUND CHEAP AT A PAWN SHOP

THE MEDIC
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Thursday, April 2nd, 2015 AT 6:04 PM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
The rod and key cylinder move free. I'm pretty sure its the right switch. I asked for the no tilt one, and it looks like the old one.
I asked some guys at work if anyone had a dwell/tach. No dice. I'm gonna try and pick one up this weekend. There's a harbor freight here in town.
When I get home I can line up TDC.
Thanks for the help by the way. I rebuilt two old mustangs when I was younger. But their ignition wasn't like this.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2015 AT 5:49 AM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
Some photos for reference.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2015 AT 2:25 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
PICS ARE A HELP

THEY MAY BE TO BIG (IF YOU CAN RE-SIZE 'EM)

KEEP SENDING 'EM, REMOVE THE AIR CLEANER

SOMEBODY THINKS THEY NEEDED TO NUTTER BYPASS SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER NUTTERED TO BEGIN WITH! THIS MAY BE A "FIRING PROBLEM, SEE PIC 2 FOR HOW IT'S MEANT TO BE

SEE MY PICS

YOU SAY YOU CAN GET TO TDC WITHOUT INSTRUCTION? (I'LL BE GLAD TO)

YOU WAS OFF BY 2 DEGREES! (NO BIGGIE) ARE YOU ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE WHEN YOU LINED UP THE LINES? (THE LINES LINE UP ON THE END OF THE EXHAUST STROKE TOO-180 OUT!) SEE PICS 3 & 4

PIC 5) THIS IS "TEXTBOOK" DISTRIBUTOR SET UP (AS YOU WILL SEE IT IN MANUALS) I USUALLY PUT 'EM BACK THIS WAY, SO THAT WHEN SOMEONE FORGETS THE SEQUENCE AND POSITIONS, THEIR "BOOK" WILL MATCH UP WITH THE SET UP

(EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD DROP IT IN ANYWHERE, AS LONG AS THE ENGINE IS AT TDC AND YOU START THE SEQUENCE AT WHEREVER #1 WINDS UP AT)

SHOULD YOU LIFT THE DISTRIBUTOR UP AND MOVE THE ROTOR, YOU MAY HAVE TO PULL IT ALL OF THE WAY OUT AND MOVE THE OIL PUMP SLOT IN THE HOLE WITH A SCREWDRIVER SO THE DISTRIBUTOR WILL DROP ALL OF THE WAY IN WHEN RE-INSTALLED

MORE PICS!

ARE YOU CAUGHT UP THUS FAR?

THE MEDIC
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Friday, April 3rd, 2015 AT 6:16 PM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
I'll do some compare and contrast with that wiring diagram tomorrow. Thanks!
That black wire is a ground wire I spliced in. I read some folks found that it helped to ground the ignition module directly. Instead of just relying on the ground through the distributor. It didn't make a difference one way or the other.
This may help illustrate what's going on.
There other night I thought I got it going. It was running good and hitting on all six. I ran it up the road and it drove fine until I was headed back. It just died. I tried to crank it over and it would try to fire, like it would spark once, but not start. It finally lit up but sounded like one cylinder was was working. It was enough to get it up my drive way.
Right now I can go out and it will start but it runs bad. When I had the timing light on it, the light went out. I thought the lead came off but then it lit up again. I assume the number one cylinder was firing intermittently. Every few seconds it would fire.
I picked up a small multimeter today. No luck on the dwell/tach though. Two pawn shops, harbor freight and Sears. No one had it.
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Friday, April 3rd, 2015 AT 6:52 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
LET'S GET THE WIRING TO THE MODULE BACK ON TRACK

LATE '82 AND '83 ON UP IS WHEN SOMEBODY AT AMC DECIDED TO THROW IN A COMPUTER AND A FEEDBACK CARB, THEY SHOULDA BEEN TAKEN OUT BACK AND.

YEARS LATER, WE FIND THAT THE SYSTEM WAS OVER COMPLICATED AND CRAP/ WHEN SOMETHING IN THE SYSTEM NOW DOESN'T WORK, YOU CAN'T FIND IT/ THINGS HAVE BEEN REMOVED (MIGHT AS WELL BE SET UP LIKE A "GOOD RUNNING '79" THAN A "BAD RUNNING '86")

THAT WAS THE POINT WHERE CJs BECAME A BIT MORE COMPLICATED, WE CAN STILL REVERT 'EM BACK (JUST A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED/ PEOPLE ARE "SKEERED" TO ATTEMPT A CHANGE FROM WHAT THEY HAD (LIKE GETTING THE CHEAPER '79 CARB W/ LESS COMPLICATIONS

YOURS IS AN '80,

GOOD TO GO,

UNLESS SOMEONE IS TRYING TO UPGRADE IT TO "NEWER STANDARDS" (NOT BETTER STANDARDS)

THE COVER/ SHELL/ BODY OF THE MODULE IS ALREADY GROUNDED VIA THE MOUNTING BOLTS

- 1ST PIC IS MR. IGN MODULE - WE WANNA DO THIS TEST 4 TO 6 TIMES IN A ROW, THIS SORTA WARMS 'EM UP, IF IT FAILS ONCE, I'D GET A NEW ONE (THEY ARE NOTORIOUS FOR FAILURE). THERE IS NOTHING LIKE INSTALLING A "NEW-BAD" MODULE, THEN TEARING THE JEEP APART FOR DAYS TRYING TO FIND THE "NON-EXISTENT REAL PROBLEM".

TEST THE NEW ONES TOO, BEFORE YOU WALK OUT OF THE DOOR!

IF IT COMES DOWN TO IT, VISIT A DIFFERENT AUTO PARTS STORE!

I TOOK THAT PIC AT ADVANCE AUTO PARTS, THE PRESTOLITE CONNECTOR IS FOR '76-'78. PRESTOLITE IGN WAS REALLY CRAPPY TOO (FOR SEVERAL REASONS)!

IN 1979, AMC/ JEEP WENT WITH A FORD IGNITION (YEAH! SOMETHING GOOD)

I PLACED THAT CONNECTOR CLOSEST TO THE MACHINE

I UPGRADED MY '77 TO THIS '79 FORD SYSTEM, SO MANY HEADACHES DISAPPEARED!

ALSO INSURE YOU HAVE THE CORRECT COIL, MANY TIMES THE PARTS GUY WILL ASK YOU ABOUT INTERNAL/ EXTERNAL RESISTANCE [YOU WILL GO DUMB!]- IT SHOULD BE ONE FOR USE WITH "EXTERNAL RESISTANCE" (YOUR JEEP SHOULD HAVE A RESISTANCE WIRE FROM A SPLICE NEAR THE IGN MODULE TO REALLY CLOSE TO THE COIL- DIAGRAM IN MY LAST ANSWER SHOULD SHOW IT-[IF IT AIN'T BEEN MODIFIED])

WAITIN' ON YOU TO CATCH UP! (DAMN FLYBOYS!) (MY DAD WAS ONE FOR 20 YEARS)(I WENT ARMY AIRBORNE RANGER FOR 4-1/2)

THE MEDIC
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 7:09 AM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
Alright Mr. Medic, I pulled out all my wires and matched them to the diagram you sent. They all went where they were supposed to. I took the tape off of the splices for the resistor wire to check them. I suppose their good.
The old ignition module had all the potting material melted out of the back when I took it off. There was a spare module in the jeep, still in the box when I bought it. I tried that one first and there was no change. So I bought a new BWD ignition module from advance auto. They don't have a tester there though. That's the one that's on now.
Sorry if the photos are large. My computer crapped out so I'm doing all this from my iPad.
Let me know if you need some specific pictures.

I had the pleasure of training with the Army at Ft Polk before I went to Afghanistan. Good fun.
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 5:41 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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TWO PICS AT A TIME IS FINE!

GET ME ONE DRIVER'S SIDE CARB AND FORWARD/ AND A FEW ON THE PASSENGER SIDE/ OVERHEAD OF WHOLE ENGINE. CARB AND VACUUM LINES MAINLY

I'M DOWNLOADING THEM/ BRIGHTENING/ BLOWING THEM UP BIG/ LOOKING FOR BAD THINGS

EGR NOT BEING HOOKED UP IS FINE! IT'S NOT A CRITICAL THING. WHEN YOU ADD HEADERS IT'S NOT HOOKED UP AT ALL

IN THE END, YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO GET VARIOUS SIZES OF WIRE LOOMS TO TIDY UP THAT RAT'S NEST!

IS YOUR FUEL SYSTEM LIKE THIS? (SHOULD BE) SEE MY 1ST TWO PICS. AN ELECTRIC PUMP IS A STUPID THING! (I HOPE YOU ARE STILL MECHANICAL)

I HAVE RE-PIPED MINE (FOR NEATNESS), I'VE ADDED A BELL AND A WHISTLE TO MINE (OPTIONAL) THE MINI PRESSURE GAUGE AND THE REGULATOR

THE MEDIC
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 6:20 PM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
It was cleaner before I pulled all the wires out. Not as clean as yours. That looks sharp.
There's wires that don't go anywhere anymore. The guy before me pulled the ac pump and some emissions stuff. I assume that's where the wires went.
The jeep was a government jeep of some kind. It has a GSA sticker in the glove box and a military looking data plate.
It's got a new gas tank but the pump is still mechanical.
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 6:48 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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ALL RIGHTY THEN

I'M CRITIQUING MOST OF YOUR PICS (SOME OF WHICH I FEEL IS ALREADY FINE- JUST REVIEWING FOR OTHER FOLKS WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW). ALSO WANT YOU TO SEE WHAT STUFF MAY HAVE BEEN MODIFIED (SO THAT YOU WON'T BE WONDERING WHY THINGS AIN'T LOOKING RIGHT AT THE AUTO PARTS STORE WHEN YOU ASK FOR SOMETHING)

JUST WANT YOU AT 100% AND RELIABLE

TAKES SOME TIME- I'LL POST 'EM AS I GO

RESPOND IN BETWEEN IF YOU WISH, I GOT LIKE 3 OR 4 TO GO!

THE MEDIC
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 8:06 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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I CROPPED THIS A BIT MORE

MAYBE IT'S BIGGER

THE MEDIC
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 8:10 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
HERE'S THE NEXT ONE

REST OF 'EM TOMORROW

THE MEDIC
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 9:38 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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THIS SHOULDA BEEN 1ST PIC ABOVE

THE MEDIC
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Saturday, April 4th, 2015 AT 9:40 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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EXPERIMENT

SAME TWO PICS ENLARGED TO 200%

WILL THEY BE BLURRY?

THE MEDIC
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Sunday, April 5th, 2015 AT 7:40 AM
Tiny
AMMOBONES
  • MEMBER
Heres some pics of the carb and hoses.
I can't get this ignition thing squared away. It ran. Good. Then it didn't. I intend on going through the whole rig overtime. But it need to run right now.
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Sunday, April 5th, 2015 AT 8:53 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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I GET TIMED OUT TOO OFTEN AND LOSE MY POSTING WHEN I SUBMIT IT. NOW I'M REFRESHING ANOTHER TAB, BEFORE I SUBMIT

LAST PIC

I HOPE YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THE "PROBLEMS" I FOUND

THESE WILL AFFECT THE RUNNING AND RELIABILITY OF YOUR JEEP

NEED TO KNOW WHEN THESE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED

1) WRONG PCV

2) TWO CARB VENTS UNCAPPED AND "BREATHING" CLEAN AIR

3) FUEL TANK VENT LINE (THE GARDEN HOSE GREEN COLORED ONE)

4) THE IGNITION MODULE WIRING BACK TO CORRECT AS IN THE EARLIER DIAGRAM I SENT (NO EXTRA GROUNDING)

5) DWELL/ TACH? EVEN A CHEAP "DASH TACH" (USED PORTABLE UNDER THE HOOD) WILL WORK IN A PINCH, IT'S MUCH HARDER TO "TWEAK IN" ADJUSTMENTS WITH A SHORT NEEDLE SWEEP. WE CANNOT PROPERLY "TIME" OR ADJUST THE CARB WITHOUT A TACH IN YOUR FACE! RUNNING BACK AND FORTH TO THE DASH DON'T CUT IT!

I WANT YOU TO DO THIS "MY WAY" TO INSURE WE ARE AT TDC, AND THE WIRES ARE IN SEQUENCE

BATTERY CABLE OFF!

SCREW OUT #1 PLUG, SCREW IT BACK IN 2 THREADS (LOOSE IN THE HOLE)

USING A RATCHET AND SOCKET ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT "CW" VIEWED FROM THE FRONT

(THIS COULD REQUIRE NEARLY 2 REVOLUTIONS OR LESS, DEPENDING ON THE POSITIONS OF THE VALVES) IF YOU "MISS IT", KEEP ON TURNING! BUMPING THE ENGINE W/ THE STARTER SOMETIMES GETS BUMPED TOO FAR, IT ROTATES BACK, OR PASSES THE MARKS. HARD TO GO WRONG WITH A SLOW RATCHET!

AS YOU RATCHET, YOU WILL HEAR AIR HISS UP AROUND THE LOOSE SPARK PLUG

STOP/ REST FOR A SECOND! YOU ARE NOW COMING UP WITH NUMBER 1 PISTON AND YOU ARE ON COMPRESSION STROKE. WHEN IT REACHES THE EXACT TOP OF IT'S TRAVEL WE WILL BE ON TDC

SINCE WE CANNOT SEE IN THERE- IN A PERFECT WORLD- WHEN OUR HARMONIC BALANCER LINE OR "MARK" LINES UP ON "ZERO" OF THE STATIONARY NUMBERED MARKS ON THE TIMING SCALE (MADE ONTO THE TIMING CHAIN COVER) THE PISTON SHOULD BE AT THE VERY TOP!

OK BACK TO THE RATCHET, CONTINUE "CW" UNTIL YOU ARE ON ZERO!

STOP!

STOP!

(ABOVE, THE ONLY THING THAT WILL SCREW THIS UP, IS IF THE OUTER RING OF THE HARMONIC HAS "SLIPPED" ON THE RUBBER MIDDLE. IF IT HAS (SELDOM/ BUT DOES) THE CENTER OF THE BALANCER (KEYED TO THE CRANK) IS NO LONGER CALIBRATED TO THE TIMING LINE ON THE OUTER PART. DEPENDING ON HOW FAR IT SLIPPED, WILL THROW OFF TDC. A NEW OR REMANNED HARMONIC BALANCER IS THE FIX!

STOP!

OK, LETS GO AGAIN!

NOW POP THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP OFF

ON THE OUTSIDE BODY OF THE DISTRIBUTOR, MAKE A VERTICAL MARK, WITH A SHARPIE. THE MARK WILL NEED TO BE DEAD UNDER THE CENTER OF THE ROTOR BUTTON'S METAL TIP

REPLACE THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP, NUMBER ONE WIRE SHOULD BE RIGHT THERE ABOVE YOUR MARK (KEEP READING)

IF YOU DIDN'T DROP THE DISTRIBUTOR "TEXTBOOK" (NOW WOULD BE THE TIME AT TDC!) IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT TEXTBOOK. YOUR MARK MIGHT BE ANYWHERE AROUND THE DISTRIBUTOR BODY.

THIS IS OK!

HOWEVER, YOU "MUST" PUT #1 WIRE ABOVE THE SHARPIE MARK, AND FROM THERE, IN A "CW" MANNER (VIEWED FROM ABOVE) CONTINUE THE FIRING SEQUENCE WITH THE OTHER WIRES

1-5-3-6-2-4

RE-INSTALL #1 SPARK PLUG!

READY TO TIME? GOT THE METER AND GUN?

THINGS TO CONSIDER

THIS GETS YOU REAL CLOSE

YOU MIGHT HAVE TO TWEAK THE DISTRIBUTOR BODY CW OR CCW TO GET IT TO CRANK AND STAY RUNNING

WHEN DOING THE TIMING PROCEDURE, IT MAY NEED EVEN MORE TWEAKING TO BE RIGHT

LET'S NOT DWELL ON THIS, I WANT YOU AWARE OF IT

DEPENDING ON HOW IT WAS INITIALLY DROPPED IN, YOU MAY "RUN OUT" OF TRAVEL BEFORE YOU GET TO THE DESIRED POSITION

2 WAYS TO MOVE IT

PICK IT UP AND MOVE THE ROTOR INTO A DIFFERENT CAM GEAR TOOTH

OR SOMETIMES

WHILE AT TDC, MAKE ANOTHER SHARPIE MARK UNDER THE 2 NEIGHBORING WIRES ROTATE THE (WHICHEVER NEW) SHARPIE MARK (WHICHEVER NEEDED DIRECTION) UNDER THE ROTOR BUTTON. NOW YOU NEED TO MOVE THE ENTIRE WIRE SEQUENCE A "JUMP" CW OR CCW. ALL DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU MUST MOVE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SWING THE BODY

SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA "THINK THIS ALL OUT", WHICH WAY DO I NEED ROOM, WHICH WAY WILL MY SEQUENCE HAVE TO MOVE, REMEMBER! THE ROTOR TRAVELS CW!

NEED A BIG UPDATE NOW, ARE WE CAUGHT UP!

THE MEDIC
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Sunday, April 5th, 2015 AT 4:03 PM

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