Random misfire

Tiny
LENCHOCAZADOR
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
  • 2.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 45,000 MILES
Vehicle listed above is a non-turbo.. Problem: Random misfires for the last 4 years. No OBDC codes showing, ever. Scanner always shows everything okay. Problem is not temperature related, either ambient: 40ºF - 120ºF, or engine. Also, no correlation to gear selection or shifting. Charging system okay. Problem can appear immediately after starting or not show for 60 miles. Somewhat sensitive to throttle and load, but not always. Re-seated four connectors to ECM, problem still appeared after 30min drive on level ground. Computer engineer (hardware) with DVM, but no oscilloscope. Ideas? Larry
Sunday, March 28th, 2021 AT 9:28 PM

12 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,014 POSTS
If it's a true misfire a scan tool reading mode 6 misfire data should give you an idea of which cylinder(s) are the issue. If it's really random on the tool then I would be looking at fuel pressure and possible vacuum leaks. This guide can help

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-misfires-or-runs-rough

If it's more a single cylinder causing the miss then I would look at the ignition side or possibly an injector fault. But using a scan tool to look at mode 6 is first. You mention a scanner is that yours or other?
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Monday, March 29th, 2021 AT 12:26 AM
Tiny
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The scanner is mine and always running. I use the word "misfire" for lack of a better. "Stumble" would also fit. No code ever shows or is stored.
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Monday, March 29th, 2021 AT 12:33 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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This isn't a trouble code it would be in mode 6 data and shows the misfire counters for each cylinder it is something higher level scan tools can do. What is the device you are using by make/model, I'll see if it has a way to view mode 6 data? Also if you are leaving it plugged into the port all the time it could possibly be causing a problem as the network can be sensitive to outside influence.
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Monday, March 29th, 2021 AT 2:38 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Have you had a chance to test out the tool you have to see if it will show the mode 6 data? Just want to try to assist.
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Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 AT 12:11 PM
Tiny
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Scanner brand is "Centech" from Harbor Freight. Problem occurs with out scanner. Doubt scanner shows mode 6. The only garage for 75 miles has same limitation. Can you recommend one? Preferably one that includes mode 8 and is Bluetooth with software that works with iPad.
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Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 12:28 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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That one likely doesn't cover all of mode 6 only limited live data as it isn't one of the "mandatory" data PIDs for the OBD II standards. I don't know of any app type scan tool that works on an iPad that has any real mode 8 ability. As for ones I like, the Launch Diagun V is a great tool that offers full diagnostic and some programming abilities in a small package and much lower cost than most other full range tools.
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Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 8:29 AM
Tiny
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Thanks for the help. Changing the plugs, any preferred brand? Gap on the engine sticker says.040, service manual says 0.048 to 0.058, Did Chrysler change this?
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Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 1:39 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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The difference is based on the make of the plugs used. The OE copper is.040 then if you go to platinum or other "exotic" the gap is larger. However I've seen misfire increase a lot when other than copper plugs were run in them, same as the 3.7 and 4.7, they just don't like the exotic style plugs, instead you just replace the copper plugs every 30,000 and have a smoother running engine. The coils don't have a lot of power to fire the larger gap on the exotic plugs.
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+1
Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 10:42 PM
Tiny
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Thanks. I was just placing an order for NGK's platinum. I'll stick with the originals. Also, is the Launch Diagun V you have the current version? I haven't read through all Launch's choices.
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Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 10:48 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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It is but it isn't US supported, For me that isn't a big issue. For others it may be. Launch does offer the larger pad which has the same features just a bigger screen and US sales but it's more money as well. I have a few scan tools around here, from Autel, Launch, Snap-On, OTC/Bosch and some OE ones as well. For overall use I grab the Autel simply because it does more than most of the others but at a higher price, the Diagun is a close second in abilities. I like the Snap-On scope and it's a good tool but it's expensive more than the others and requires you to be online to use it as it has to call home to work, the Diagun doesn't unless updating or using the web features.
Depending on how many vehicles you are working on and how new they are you might even want to look at the OTC EVO (Genisys) scan tool, the last update was 2014 I think but those are a powerful tool, still not real cheap but a used one that covers your vehicle (like eBay item 294091610552 or 143949880849) isn't way out of price. Not wireless but they are a rugged proven tool.
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Thursday, April 1st, 2021 AT 11:14 PM
Tiny
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Several years ago, I started to buy whatever service manual was available from a local dealer. I put it off because there were several (3 or 4) versions listed and the parts people couldn't/wouldn't tell me what was in each one. The most expensive was over $300.00. Now I really need all I can get, but it looks like Chrysler as deleted all documentation along with the car. Any sources for full service info?
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Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 AT 1:25 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
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Mitchell1 and Alldata offer service info for about $30.00 a year but that is for a single vehicle. That gets you the same info source that shops use. I believe it covers everything but they offer a money back guarantee if it doesn't. If you only work on 2-3 vehicles it's not a bad deal. If you run a shop they offer the full access to all they cover but it's not cheap. The companies have been removing most of the inline access now that they claim everything is "protected". I'm not sure if the libraries still buy access to service info or not, they used to but I haven't tried that source in a long time.
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Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 AT 6:31 PM

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