Master cylinder swap

Tiny
BRUCE DUNLAP
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 280,000 MILES
Will a master cylinder with traction control work on a van without traction control?
Friday, January 10th, 2020 AT 7:35 AM

1 Reply

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,765 POSTS
No, they're different part numbers. The reason is vans without traction control don't have anti-lock brakes, so they use the more efficient rear drum brakes. Drum brakes take too long to modulate brake fluid pressure, so they are ineffective with anti-lock brakes. That means when you have anti-lock brakes, you usually will have rear disc brakes.

The first difference in master cylinders has to do with those rear brakes. With rear drum brakes, there is always a "residual check valve" in the port where the steel line attaches. That valve traps returning brake fluid and keeps it at 10 psi all the time. That isn't nearly enough to keep the brakes applied, but it prevents air from sneaking in past the lip seals in the wheel cylinders when barometric pressure goes up while the vehicle is sitting. That 10 pounds of fluid pressure would keep disc brakes applied slightly, so there can't be a residual check valve in that system.

Most minivans and small cars use a "split-diagonal" hydraulic system in which each half of the master cylinder operates one front brake and the opposite rear brake. When the rear brakes are the drum-type, the residual check valves have to be located further down the system where they only affect the rear brakes. That can be in the combination valve assembly under the master cylinder, on the frame rail, or in the height-sensing proportioning valve in the rear, typically found on minivans. In that case the master cylinder can be the same part number for a vehicle with and without anti-lock brakes.

For your van, however, there's another difference between the two master cylinders. That is the diameter of the pistons, and therefore, the volume of brake fluid that gets pushed down the lines. The master cylinder for traction control / anti-lock brakes has a larger diameter. If you use the ABS master cylinder when your van doesn't have that option, the brake pedal will be too high and too difficult for you to carefully fine-tune how hard the van is stopping. You'll have a tendency for your nose to be up against the windshield with just light pressure on the brake pedal.

If you use a non-ABS master cylinder on a van with anti-lock brakes, the pistons won't move the normal amount of brake fluid. You'll need to push the brake pedal further than normal and comfortable. When the ABS system activates in a prolonged skid, you could run out of brake pedal travel,and have to release it, then push it again. That is a dangerous requirement in an emergency situation.

Here's a link to an article on replacing master cylinders, if it will help:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-a-brake-master-cylinder

In addition, I have a trick to avoid having to bleed at the wheels at the end of this procedure.

When you replace the master cylinder with two steel lines, loosen the line nuts a little, remove the mounting bolts to the power booster, pull the master cylinder forward, then use it as a handle to bend the steel lines up a little. That will keep the fluid from running out of the lines.

Remove the two lines all the way, then remove the master cylinder. Brake fluid eats paint, so be careful to not allow any to drip onto the car.

Screw the two lines into the new master cylinder that has been bench-bled, then use it to bend those lines back down to their normal shape. Bolt it to the booster, then snug one of the line nuts. Have a helper slowly push the brake pedal half way to the floor. It should take about 15 seconds to do that. You'll see bubbles coming out by that nut. Snug the nut, then holler to the helper to quickly release the pedal.

Do that a second time, and perhaps a third time, until you see only clear fluid with no bubbles coming out, then do that for the other line. By pushing slowly, fluid will get pushed down the lines, and air will float back up. By releasing the pedal quickly, the fluid rushing back will wash the air back up into the reservoir with it. This can even work when working on the car by yourself, just keep the line nuts tight.

This wondrous trick might not work on Fords that have four lines at the master cylinder.

It's good practice to never push the pedal over half way to the floor, although it won't matter with a rebuilt master cylinder. Once they get to be about a year old, crud and corrosion build up in the lower halves of the bores where the pistons don't normally travel. Pushing the pedal to the floor, like most do-it-yourselfers do, runs the rubber lips seals over that crud and can rip them. That results in a slowly-sinking brake pedal, and that often doesn't show up until two or three days later.
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Friday, January 10th, 2020 AT 10:49 AM

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