Mechanics

VERY WEAK SPARK FROM 2ND USED DISTRIBUTOR

1996 Honda Accord

Electrical problem
1996 Honda Accord 6 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 159000 miles
We have tested the battery, set the timing by the marks on the sprockets to the non moving marks, double checked the firing order.
Initially when I got the car the sprag was going out inside the tranny , so we replaced the tranny and off we went , but the car kept stalling out & had to restart it almost every block to get it back to the garage. I can hear the 2 seconds of fuel pump run , then the click in the main relay (which we alsio tried a new relay.) & now I hear another click or snap , near the distributor.
I have checked and worked all the grounds and connectors to make sure they are all making contact. I also checked all fuses inside & under the hood several times. I also cleaned the contacts going into the fuse box under the hood.
VERY WEAK white SPARK with no snap , FROM 2ND USED DISTRIBUTOR , NOT ENOUGH TO START THE CAR. REPLACED , CAP,ROTOR, WIRES, PLUGS,IGNITION MODULE, TEMP SENSOR,,COIL, TDC & CYP SENSORS DUE TO GETTING THOSE CODES P1361 & P1381.
DID THE BYPASS CHECK ON THE IGNITION SWITCH & STILL NO START.
IT STARTED EACH TIME AFTER CHANGING THE IGNITION MODULE & COIL AND THE DISTRIBUTOR , BUT THEN DIED AS SOON AS I GIVE IT MUCH GAS. NOW ITS BACK TO NOT SATRTING AT ALL AND HAS A VERY WEAK SPARK , BUT THE NEW COIL PUTS OUT 12VOLTS. GUESS BOTH DISTRIBUTORS COULD BE BAD and I may need a new one? But honestly after using every forum and picking peoples brains we are all at a loss here. Please help.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/530645_96_honda_accord_lx_1.jpg

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Jetncomptech
May 23, 2010.



Hi Jetncomptech,

Thank you for the donation.

I would like to understand the problem better so I hope you can fill me in on the following.

1. Did you test the ignition coil resistance?
2. Is the trouble code P1361 and P1381 still showing?
3. You mentioned white sparks, how far can it jump if you hold the coil wire from a grounding point? Sparks are either dull orange or bright blue so I am a little surprised that it is white.
4. Did you test the engine compression?
5. Did you test the fuel pressure?

KHLow2008
May 24, 2010.
96 ACCORD STILL HARDLY ANY SPARK NOW FROM COIL & DISTRIBUTOR. It has a very weak to almost n o spark,
IT's a brand new coil, cap & rotor, ICM, but we were eliminating sensors today like this site says to do and decided to stop & re-check spark again. The guy who is helping me says we should have power to 2 wires at the connector going to the dist /coil with the key on & we only have power at the brown striped wire not at the yellow one at all. I have a print out of the multi-connector color codes with a poor power legend as yel wire #2 shows to be secondary at the coil while it shows power linked to the ignition module?
He checked compression and said it was good. When we pulled the plugs they were wet with fuel, but he checked the injectors & said they are good also. We did replace the fuel filter at the firewall, but some on here speak of another one elsewhere I'm not aware of. I replaced the plugs & wire set also. Now i'm not getting any codes the check engine light goes off as stated in the notes on this site.

When I turn the key to on the 2 seconds and the pump ruins & the main relay clicked once, but then I hear a snap near the distributor /coil area.

Tiny
Jetncomptech
May 24, 2010.
I HAVE answered the reply and today ran thru the MIL test lights and got no CEL codes either way. Finished disconnecting one at a time all sensors found on engine, tranny or exhaust, One thing I hadn; t seen any input on is the resistor box just under the hood near the driver's side windshield.
EVERYTHING you asked about is tested fine.
None of those things are the problem with almost no spark. All multi -connectors were also checked okay.

The yellow wire is good on power the yellow wire leaving the coil does not power up until ignition key is turned on.

You see when the initial items were replaced it started up like a new car until I dove a block or so then it started to die when accelerated and now after replacing the CYP & TDC sensors it won't start at all.

Could those sensors be failing enough to keep it from getting proper spark form the coil & distributor if they are bad new ones?

According to the Honda repair manuals & what's here online only things left are the ignition switch which bypass tested fine and the ECU which the CEL is not staying on. The only lights staying on during start attempts are the ABS, SRS & OIL pressure lights.

Tiny
Jetncomptech
May 25, 2010.
KHLow2008 wrote: Hi Jetncomptech,

Thank you for the donation.

I would like to understand the problem better so I hope you can fill me in on the following.

1. Did you test the ignition coil resistance? No swapped coil again yesterday and now have better spark
2. Is the trouble code P1361 and P1381 still showing? Even tried the MIL light method by the factory recommended short connect to the plug behind the glovebox & I finally got combustion today since it had died after replacing the distributor and now it got codes p1381 & p0336 for intermittent CYP and wrong voltage on crankshaft sensor.
So since the crankshaft sensor hasn't been replaced I'm ordering one now.
3. You mentioned white sparks, how far can it jump if you hold the coil wire from a grounding point? Sparks are either dull orange or bright blue so I am a little surprised that it is white. Spark improved after replacing the coil again.
4. Did you test the engine compression? Compression was never the issue & has little to do with proper spark. The assisting mechanic says the compression is fine as well is the fuel. If we never had fuel issues or codes why is the question asked
5. Did you test the fuel pressure?Answered this I pulled all plugs again yesterday they were soaked with fuel and black sooted. If we never had fuel issues or codes why is the question asked

please reply to my questions
question 1. I asked if the new CYP & OR TDC sensors could cause a no start?
2.I asked about the resistor box under the hood?
3. According to this website & the Honda factory manuals, the only thing left to cause my problem of weak to no spark spark (only) is the crank sensor or ECU. ?

Tiny
Jetncomptech
May 27, 2010.
Sorry for the delay in replying, seems the notification system failed and I was not notified.

The only item that can cause weak sparks would be the ignition coil. If it is anything to do with sensors or the ECM, you would not be getting any sparks.

I believe you have a bad ignition coil or it is of the wrong specs. Recheck the ignition coil installation. Did you check the ground circuit connections at the intake manifold on driver side?

I am sorry I do not understand which resistor box you are referring to, can u upload a picture of it?

KHLow2008
May 30, 2010.
Resistor box is at the left firewall DIRECTLY UNDER THE Hood
I changed the coil again and then we had the injector circuit tester hooked up and noted intermittent lites on them while cranking, my starter went out most likely from all the cranking so now it will be new as well.

I replaced the crank sensor too. I had already stated I checked all the grounds noted in troubleshooting and now also tried another ECU. Still no start

Tiny
Jetncomptech
Jun 4, 2010.
You must be referring to the injector resistors.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_EngComp96Accord6cylFig07_1.jpg



Fuel Injector Resistor

Unplug injector resistor harness connector. Injector resistor is located over left front fenderwell. Measure resistance between injector resistor terminal No. 5 and terminals No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 7 and 8. See Fig. 4 . Resistance should be 5-7 ohms for each measurement. If any measurement is not as specified, replace injector resistor.

Lets go through this again.
Fuel and compression has everything to do with non starting so that was the reason for asking previously and if the injectors are flooding the cylinders, you would not be able to start.

You could have a fault with the ignition system earlier but now it could be something else so if all things fails, then you have to start from the basics.

One thing just crossed my mind. If the last time engine could not be started after distributor change, recheck the firing order. If the distributor is reman, there is a possibility the distributor rotor position has been installed 180 degrees opposite the original position. If this is the case, you would have sparks but they would be out of time.

I have sent you the ignition coil resistance test, let me know if they are what you tested.

KHLow2008
Jun 9, 2010.
WE HAVE THOSE plug in bulb testers and they are supposed to flash steady while cranking, but we have had intermittent spark from the ignition coil/ plug wires & all we have changed
1. Crank sensor
2. TDC & CYP sensors
3. Distributor ROTOR, CAP & ICM
4. PLUGS & WIRES
5. ECU.
6. CHECKED THE GROUNDS OVER & OVER AS WELL AS MULTI-CONNECTORS for loose pins
7. The ignition switch bypass check
8. Firing orders
9. Set the three timing marks to coincide with the sprockets to stationary marks.
10. Replaced the starter yesterday
11. Temp sensor replaced
12. New ignition keys as the old one was hard to turn
13. Did the code lite mil CEL check for blinks
14. Last codes we got were crank & CYP sensor but no codes now as we have not gotten combustion since clearing those codes.
15. Compression has been good all along and we've had several starts after changing things.
16. The problem 1st occurred after replacing the transmission.
17. We checked the shift solenoids good.
18. The CEL is not on now and the lites do as they are supposed to.
19. We also tried a new main relay.
20. When the engine does start it sounds fine until you try to drive it then you can feel what appears to be electrical power loss when trying to accelerate
21. Replaced the ignition switch assembly
and now seem to have steady fire so back to the timing as we hear what sounds like a timing lope

Tiny
Jetncomptech
Jun 9, 2010.
After all the nonsense we went thru the brand new BWD coil went bad in minutes or even seconds after we installed it. It was the reason for all the false codes and months of troubleshooting.

Tiny
Jetncomptech
Jul 18, 2010.
When a new replacement part fails, it always is a killer. We would be taken off guard and go on a wild goose chase.

Glad to know you have fixed the problem and thank you for the input.

Have a nice day.

KHLow2008
Jul 20, 2010.