1995 Dodge Dakota Starting Problem After Engine Warms

Tiny
LEMASTER7
  • MEMBER
  • 1995 DODGE DAKOTA
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 93,000 MILES
Hey guys, hope you can help me here. When the engine is cold, the engine starts very quickly and runs very smooth. After driving about 2 or 3 miles literally when I come to a stop, the engine loads up and then dies and cannot be started for some extended period of time--30 minutes to 1 hour or longer. I've had no previous problems with this vehicle. The engine has been tuned recently, no change in the behavior. This problem started about two months ago. The engine would load up and die but would start in a reasonable amount of time. Now when it dies, it will not start for a long time. Could one of the sensors be out? Someone has suggested I replace the in-tank fuel pump/filter.
Monday, May 25th, 2009 AT 1:33 PM

22 Replies

Tiny
JDL
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,098 POSTS
Hello, Did you check for any codes, you should be able to get some codes by cycling the ignition switch?

When it refuses to start, have helper crank, check for spark at the plugs and injector pulse. Check fuel pressure.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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Where to I check for codes? This vehicle does not have a LCD screen. After the engine dies I have even sprayed ether in the intake and it still will not start. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge but I can get one. I'll try checking the spark. Thanks for the quick response!
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
JDL
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You should be able to check for codes by cycling the ignition switch. You turn the key till the dash lites come on, no further. On--off, on---off, on. The check engine lite starts flashing on the dash, you count the flashes to get the codes.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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The flash code displayed is 35255. Can you tell me what that means?
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
JDL
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  • 16,098 POSTS


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/170934_dakota_codes_1.jpg



The codes should be two digit codes, when you run them together it is hard to tell. The code 55 would be end if message, it always comes last.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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I'll try doing teh codes again and see if I can get them into two digits. Thanks again>
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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Guys, I'm having a problem reading the check engine light flash code. I know these are supposed to be 2 digit codes. Here's what happens during flashing:
1 flash then a short pause then two flashes, then a 4 sec pause then 5 flashes then a short pause then 2 flashes then a 4 sec pause then 5 flashes then a short pause then 5 flashes then light goes off and remains off. The short pause is about 2 seconds long.
The codes could be 12 and 52 with the 55 as the ending sequence. If that's the case, what is my problem? Fuel pump, O2 sensor, crank sensor, MAP sensor or what?
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
JDL
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Hello, the code 12 means the battery voltage has been lost at some time. The 52 is 02 sensor, system running rich. That doesn't mean the sensor is faulty. The system may be running rich for some reason? I'd check the fuel pressure for a start.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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I'll try to get a fuel pressure gauge today and get back with you on the pressure readings.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
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I don't think it's too much fuel pressure because it would run rich all the time. It sounds like the problem doesn't occur until it goes into closed loop and the engine computer starts to use the O2 sensor readings to fine tune fuel metering.

I would suspect a MAP sensor that is providing an incorrect reading but not failed sufficiently yet to set a fault code. A leaky injector is another possibility, but I don't think it would cause such severe symptoms. Newer trucks have the MAP sensor screwed into the side of the throttle body. If yours still is connected with a vacuum hose, check that hose for cracks or leaks. A leak will mimic acceleration which will call for more fuel.

The in-tank fuel screen will cause the engine to die but not run rich. Are you actually seeing black smoke out of the tail pipe? The screen will usually collapse when the largest amount of fuel is being pumped which is, ... When coasting! It will actually run quite well at highway speeds.

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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Thanks for the response caradiodoc. I found an online site that gave me detailed instructions on how to do a bench test on both the oxygen sensor and the MAP sensor using a digital volt meter on both and a torch for the O2 sensor and a hand vacuum pump for the the MAP sensor. I know where the oxygen sensor is but I don't know where the MAP sensor is located. Could you help me out here?

Thanks to all,
John
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
ZACKMAN
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https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/55316_95dakotamap_1.jpg

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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
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It's screwed into the driver's side of the throttle body and has three wires on it. Don't waste your time testing it; just find a good used one in the salvage yard and stick it in. Older units had a vacuum hose that you could remove and attach a pump to. Yours has a threaded fitting.

The only thing you can watch with a voltmeter is the voltage. You won't know if it's the correct voltage or not. The engine computer watches a number of characteristics of the sensor that you can't duplicate. The voltage could be correct, but it could be slow to respond. A good sensor is so sensitive, it could be used to measure engine rpm by detecting each individual pulse of air movement as a piston moves down on the intake stroke. A sluggish sensor will set a "pneumatic failure" diagnostic fault code and turn on the "Check Engine" light even though the average voltage is correct. Incorrect voltages will adversely affect engine performance, but as long as those voltages remain between.5 and 4.5 volts, no fault code will be set. When the ignition switch is first turned on, the sensor voltage represents barometric pressure. If the sensor fails to respond after the engine starts, the fault code "no change in MAP from start to run" will be set. This change must occur instantly. You can't pump it into a vacuum fast enough to test this response.

Sensors often have intermittent problems. If you test one while it's working properly, then assume it's good, you'll end up looking all over the place for the cause of the problem. Everything you do from then on introduces another potential problem into the story. Loose or stretched connector pins, corroded splices, even changing a handful of sensors can add new variables to the problem.

As an example, no two coolant temperature sensors will measure the same resistance at a given temperature. The engine computer learns the correct values over time, in this case, by comparing it to the battery temperature sensor voltage after the engine has been off for a specific period of time. The two sensors will be assumed to be at the same temperature. When you replace one of them, the computer sees the two different readings and has to figure out what the correct values are and put those in memory.

Professionals never waste time testing sensors; they install new ones based on the symptoms. If the new one doesn't solve the problem, they put the old one back in before doing more diagnostics. This is assuming they got the car as soon as the original problem developed. When people wait a long time to bring the vehicle in, or worse yet, blindly try to fix it themselves first, then bring it in, the mechanic knows there will likely be multiple problems, so he has a different mindset when doing the diagnostics. Now when he sticks in new parts that don't solve the problem, he will leave them in until the problems are all solved, then try to remove one new part at a time. As long as good engine performance continues, the removed new parts weren't necessary for the repair and a conscientious mechanic and shop owner won't make you pay for them.

Diagnostics will take longer and be much more difficult when a customer tries to hide the fact that they tried to fix it themselves first. Sometimes all that's needed is to drive the vehicle for a number of miles / shift cycles for the computer to relearn sensor values and operating conditions. Without knowing the true recent history of the vehicle, the mechanic will assume there's an unsolved problem that must be diagnosed. You pay by the hour for his knowledge and experience just like you do when you go to the doctor. Anything that makes the diagnostics and repairs take longer ultimately costs you more money.

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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I've been unable to find a fuel pressure gage locally to test fuel pressure. Does this vehicle have a fuel pressure regulator? If so where is it located? One of the 2carpros how to do sections says to pull the vac hose going to the regulator to see if gas is in the vac hose--an indication that the diaphram has failed. I know you said don't waste your time but I did a bench test on the MAP sensor and it checks out OK. It may still be bad though. I am trying to find a used one to try as you suggested.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:27 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
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  • 10 POSTS
Caradiodoc, Zackman and jdl123:

I have replaced the oxygen sensor, plug wires, dist cap and rotor. No change with these part additions--Engine will not start after warmup.I finally found a fuel pressure gage at Advance Auto. Here is the test results:

Key on pressure---34 psi steady gage.
Pressure at idle----34-40 psi rapid cycling of gage.
Pressure at 1500 rpm and higher----38 psi steady.

Are these the pressure readings I should be seeing? Where do I go from here?
Thanks, LeMaster7
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:28 PM
Tiny
ZACKMAN
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https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/55316_95dakotafuelpressure0_1.jpg



https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/55316_95dakotafuelpressure1_1.jpg



You may also want to consider testing if not replacing the ASD relay.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/55316_95dakotaasdrelay_1.jpg

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+1
Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:28 PM
Tiny
LEMASTER7
  • MEMBER
  • 10 POSTS
Thanks for the reply Zackman:
I will perform tests as you suggested. By the way I noticed a typo on the regulated pressure chart--range should be 35-45psi not 135-45. Spec is 40 psi plus or minus 5.
Thanks, LeMaster7
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:28 PM
Tiny
ZACKMAN
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It is 35 - 45. 240kPa is equivalent to 35psi.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:28 PM
Tiny
LEVONH
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
HI all.
We're having a similar problem but the opposite. Very Lean and will not run.
Did this ever get solved and what might the solution have been?
Thanks in advance.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:28 PM
Tiny
JDL
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Hi levonh, make a new separate post on the site, otherwise it gets confusing.
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Thursday, September 7th, 2017 AT 5:28 PM

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