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Car will not start, I know I know, but

Tiny
EROGEL334
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 MAZDA MILLENIA
Electrical problem 6 cyl Automatic

Long story short. We have spark up until the coil, trust me I felt it. However the spark plugs are not receiving spark. The wires are fine, the spark plugs, rotor, and distributor cap are brand new. My mechanic and I are lost as to what do next.

The car's timing was just fixed as it was off. The crank sensor is fine since we're receiving spark up until the coil.

Its definitely not a fuel problem. We here the fuel pump go off, we smell it, we definitely have compression, we tested for it. The ignition system is fine since it cranks, for some reason however there is no spark at the spark plugs, but there's spark at the coils. The distributor cap, rotor, and spark plugs are new, the spark plug wires are fine. We are stumped as to what to do next.

I would appreciate any advice or help.

Thanks for reading.
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Saturday, October 23rd, 2010 AT 9:50 PM

46 Replies

Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MECHANIC
  • 75,992 POSTS
Inspect and test the crankshaft position sensor on front of engine


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/12900_cps_53.jpg

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Monday, October 25th, 2010 AT 9:58 PM
Tiny
EROGEL334
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
I dont mean to be difficult, I appreciate your help. However. If the problem were the crankshaft position sensor. Would we still receive spark at the coil?
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Monday, October 25th, 2010 AT 11:01 PM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MECHANIC
  • 75,992 POSTS
For some reason however there is no spark at the spark plugs, but there's spark at the coils. This one is kind of hard to understand either you have it or don't-check and test both the Cam and Crank sensors-

Inspect for shavings on the sensors

Check the CPS resistances should read 950-1250 ohms, also the wiring for shorts and open

Camshaft Position Sensor (Millenia 2.3L)
Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor is located on right front of engine. Disconnect CMP sensor harness connector. Check for continuity between CMP sensor connector terminals "B" (Red/Black wire) and "C" (Yellow/Black wire). If continuity is present, replace CMP sensor. If continuity is not present, check for short or open circuit between following:
CMP sensor 4-pin harness connector terminal "B" and main relay 4-pin harness connector terminal "D" (Red/Black wire).
CMP sensor 4-pin harness connector terminal "C" and PCM 34-pin harness connector terminal "4F" (Yellow/Black wire).
CMP sensor 4-pin harness connector terminal "A" and PCM 34-pin harness connector terminal "4D" (Black/Blue wire).
Repair open or short circuit in wiring harness as necessary.
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Tuesday, October 26th, 2010 AT 12:53 AM
Tiny
WAYDELL
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
  • 2001 MAZDA MILLENIA
  • 2.5L
  • V6
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 160,000 MILES
Car just died and won't start- cranks fine -no voltage to single wire going to distributor -the other plug(4/5 wires ) has two term. That are hot. -Spark plugs are wet with gas - has 140/150 comp. On all cyl.-No spark from spark plug wires - been looking for problem 18 hrs. And at the beginning had fire from spark plugs-
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYDELL
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Thank you for your response - I have disconnected the battery a few times - will there be any stored codes -- I have a scanner(autoXray)-
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
  • 48,601 POSTS
I think so normally a battery disconnect doesn't remove codes.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYDELL
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I have been checking for voltage at a couple of places- no voltage going to crank sensor / main wire going to distributor -- cranks over fine -- I cannot check for codes with my scanner (now it doesn't work either) but I found a diagnostic plug under the hood by the brake cyl. And was wondering if I can run some test there. Thank You for your time-- I am going to concentrate on loose wiring until I have a better direction
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
  • 48,601 POSTS
Hey hook it up under hood if it works fine if not you haven' lost anything. Try wiggling the crank sensor connector then see if it fires if it does the connector isn't any good. Che resistance of crank and cam sensor here is crank sensor.
Millenia 2.3L950-1250
Millenia 2.5o & 626 (3) 520-580
measure between A & B
Image (Click to make bigger)
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYDELL
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I have 546 on the crank sensor - I can connect batt. Voltage to the (suposed to be hot)wire going to the distributor and get weak fire from spark plug wire when I crank over the engine-?
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
  • 48,601 POSTS
Seems like your ohms are right what are your codes. 2. Are yougetting fire from coil to dist? I fyou are and nothing else then it's either a bad rotor or dist cap. Are there any codes you have never said. And have you checked fuses and main relay
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYDELL
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I have no way of checking codes-my scanner quit working - I have no voltage going to the base of the dist. I checked the wire back to under dash and it is good -this car does not have an external coil, I am assuming that single wire that no longer has any voltage is going to an internal coil, when I connect batt. Voltage to that terminal on the base of dist. I get weak fire from the plug wires thanks again for your help
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WAYDELL
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I am down to thinking somthing went bad in ECM -?
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
  • 48,601 POSTS
Take this to a pro an dsave yourself some money ifthe ecm is replaced it has to be coded to your car anyhow. And it may not be that. You have never given me any codes or anything else that i've suggested so it could be something else. You are trying to repair this by guesswork. I have no further suggestions.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DAVEJONE
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
  • 1996 MAZDA MILLENIA
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 127,000 MILES
Electrical problem
1996 Mazda Millenia 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 127000 miles

Have owned this car since October and ever since owning it, it periodically does not start. No particular pattern. Sometimes goes over a week without a problem and then sometimes will have won't start a couple times in one day. When we took it in to get looked at, the car never seems to not start. The battery works fine and the engine turns over well, even when it is not starting. When it does not start it seems like it is not getting a spark. Generally if enough time passes it will start again.
Here is the strange part. My son by chance jumped the car even though it was turning over fine and it started right up. We have done this now so many times we no that it is not just happen chance. Why would this be, and does this give us some insight into what is going on.
ONe other thing - the car was clearly in an accident and was hit on the drivers front side. Not sure if this has anything to do with problem
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
2CARPRO JACK
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,533 POSTS
Have you tried a different battery? Sometimes if the starter draws too much power from the battery, the cars computer cant work properly. Have the battery and starter draw tested to see where they are at. Also check to be sure all connections are clean and tight
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DAVEJONE
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
O.K. Thanks we will give this a try.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
2CARPRO JACK
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,533 POSTS
Ok, let me know what happens
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DAVEJONE
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
We did the battery and starter draw test. See attached report from that test. Guy at Checkers said it looked all good.

The car continues to start most of the time. And the care continues to turn over well - but still from time to time won't start. Every single time when it is not starting (but still turning over) if we jump it with another car it will immediately start.

one last thing - when it was not starting we checked to see if there was a spark by pulling the plug wire and it turns out that there was no spark.

Any ideas


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/494509_battery_and_starter_draw_test_1.jpg


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/494509_battery_and_starter_draw_test_2.jpg

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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
2CARPRO JACK
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,533 POSTS
Still sounds like a low voltage situation. All you are gaining from the other battery is more stable voltage. Check every connection related to the power and ground cables and check for any corrosion in the fuses under the hood and under the dash.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DAVEJONE
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
The ground cable going to the engine block has one 2 inch section that is very frayed. Could this be the issue. Also, is it possible that the battery, although having good power, is the cause of not having stable voltage. Should we try and replace the battery based on all we know now? Thanks
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Thursday, December 15th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM (Merged)

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