Intermittent not starting issue

Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
  • 1998 FORD ESCORT
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 143,945 MILES
A month ago, I think I left the lights, so I had to jump start it, but the guy said something was running and located it to be the relay switch. It was fine for about a week but now it always starts when I first get in it and then when I get back in it to go home sometimes it is fine and sometimes, I have to try it a couple of times before it starts it tries to but doesn't. I had a new starter put on it and new plugs and wires but that's not fixed it and one time I tried by putting in neutral and start it and that time it did but other times that doesn't help. So, I'm totally frustrated, and the garage said it was probably the neutral switch going bad and was going to put a new switch in it but I'm going to be out of anymore resources to pay for something else if that doesn't take care of it either. Don't garages have testing meters or whatever to troubleshoot and rule out what is okay and what isn't? They wanted to put a new neutral switch on it today but I'm not sure because if this doesn't fix the problem it's just going to have to sit here, I don't have any more money for parts that aren't fixing the problem. It runs fine and no smoke or other sounds lights or anything to give an indication that something is wrong just the intermittent starting and not starting.
Thursday, May 26th, 2022 AT 6:07 AM

20 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

When you say it's not starting, do you mean the starter won't engage to turn the engine, or is it cranking but not running?

As far as the switch is concerned, it just bolts onto the transmission. I attached the directions below for replacing it. As far as the switch is concerned, usually, it will start in neutral when it starts to fail, but anything is possible.

Let me know exactly what happens when you turn the key, and it fails to start. For example, do the dash lights turn on? Do they go out when you try? Let me know anything you can think of that may help me diagnose the problem.

Also, keep in mind, if the starter doesn't engage, it could be a relay or something simple such as a loose or corroded battery terminal. I just need a little more info.

Take care.

Joe

See pics below.
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Thursday, May 26th, 2022 AT 6:50 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
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Yes, it cranks and no there are no dash lights on. It has always started when I get ready to go somewhere but when I get back into my car to go home sometimes it does fine, other times it tries but doesn't. Usually after the second attempt to start it starts but this past Friday after 2 attempts, I tried something else that I'd read. I put it in neutral and it started but then the next time I got in it to go home it started fine. That's what I mean about being inconsistent and It's making me a nervous wreck. The guy from church that jump started it the day I thought I'd left my lights on, which was a month ago, said he could hear something still running and told me to make sure the light switch and radio was off before he jump started it. He told me that day if the relay switch that was still running with battery being dead was going bad, I'd probably continue to have starting issues but I didn't so never thought about it when the inconsistent starting problem started last week. I have read everything and anything I can about what could be causing the starting problems. I'm sorry but I live on a strict monthly income so I can't just pay for everything it might be but isn't. I just paid for a new starter, plugs and wires which was $288.00 for those parts and labor and it didn't fix it and now the guy at the garage is telling me it's the neutral switch because I told him that one time when it wouldn't start, I tried it in neutral and it did start but I also read that my car will start in both park and neutral so why do I need a new neutral switch if it's fine? That's going to be another $138.00 plus their labor cost of $80 and if that doesn't fix the problem, they'll tell me it needs something else. Isn't there some kind of diagnostic test to rule out what it isn't or is for a heads up on where the problem is? I've exhausted all resources for paying for more parts that don't fix the problem and it's just going to have to sit and that sucks because all I use my car for is groceries, take my dog for his pedicures and church but it's my source of independence that I'm not ready or willing to give up on so please I really could use some positive info. Feeling hopeless and defeated. Why does it do okay sometimes and then sometimes not? I think I read about it not being the relay switch but there's whole lot of things it could be like the ignition switch, fuel pump, fuses, sensors, starter which I just paid for along with new spark plugs and wires and a couple of other things I can't remember right off because I'm in panic and anxiety overload which I've struggled with for most of my life but have learned to avoid the triggers and drama that makes it worse. Breathing exercises, journaling and walking helps but like I said my car is my independence to be able to take care if myself so I hope you can give me some positive info because like I said i'm not ready to give up on the independence of taking care of me, myself and I thank you for the info and reply so quickly yesterday.
Trudy Yates
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Friday, May 27th, 2022 AT 4:58 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

You are correct. It could be a number of things. However, I'm still confused. You indicated it cranks and there are no visible dash lights on. If the neutral safety switch was bad, it wouldn't crank in park. Does it not crank in park but sometimes will in neutral? You are correct when you said it should in both positions, but a bad switch will usually cause the starter to not respond in park but often times it will respond in neutral.

If the starter engages, there are no visible dash lights, and it won't start, it sounds like it could be related to the ignition switch. As far as a relay, I have seen them fail and allow something to continue running, but the relay itself doesn't run. So, if the sound came from the relay, it sounds like a short or faulty connection and the relay may be sticking.

I'm struggling to determine exactly what happens which opens the door to multiple possibilities.

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, May 27th, 2022 AT 9:12 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
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It doesn't get hot and there's no dash lights on and it is always starting when I first get into it to go somewhere and then when I start back home that's when it might start and might not and I tried it in neutral one time because like I said I read about that online when it won't start back in park to try it in neutral but doesn't work all of the time either so I put it back into park and this time it worked so idk but totally frustrated but I'm not paying for another part and labor and then that not fix it either I can't living on a fixed monthly income. I've struggled most of my life with panic and anxiety issues but have learned what the triggers are to avoid but my car problem is making it so much worse and knowing myself as well as I do and for the 61 years old, I won't stop trying to figure out what is really going on with my car I just want to get it fixed. I'm just not ready to give up my Independence of being able to take care of me, myself and I and my little furry baby so I'm praying for more positive input rather than negative.
Anyway, thank you for replying.
Trudy Yates
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Sunday, May 29th, 2022 AT 9:39 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Remember, eliminate the what-ifs in life because 99% of the time, they never happen. So, when it won't start, does the starter still turn the engine, or does nothing happen? I ask because if the starter engages and it doesn't start, that has nothing to do with the neutral safety switch. Let me know if the starter is not working or if it does work but the engine won't start.

I will watch for your reply. Also, hang in there. We'll get it fixed together. It is likely something simple.

Take care,

Joe
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Sunday, May 29th, 2022 AT 8:10 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
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Hey, thank you, you've already made me feel so much better. But to answer your question, yes, the starter works fine. That's the part along with plugs and wires I just paid to have done. I'm so relieved that I didn't go get the estimated piece of paper that my church needed to sign off on helping me with paying for the neutral switch. That guy texted me and called three times to tell me he had the new switch and that it would only take about an hour to do it but then I've had major changes at my apt complex too. Owner sold the property the same day the new owners were here to introduce themselves along with the rent would be going up almost $200.00 by the first of July. That's a huge increase all of a sudden but finding out they can and will do whatever they want without a second thought. I'm so glad I didn't take that form back to my church to sign off on it to have the neutral switch put on my car. I was even considering selling it to the maintenance guy that's liked this car since I got it almost 4 years ago. It still looks pretty good for a car that was totaled and rebuilt but just not ready to give up on it just yet. It's great on gas and everything works great until the starting issues started. Anyway, I told the guy from the garage that there was no rush because with it being a holiday weekend there wouldn't be anyone back in the office before Tuesday so it would be a little while. He's finally stopped texting and calling.
Anyway, thank you so much for explaining what I was still confused about and wasn't getting any help from anyone else and believe me I've called everywhere I can try to get help before I paid for another part that may or may not fix it either. The starter works, no dash lights on and everything else seems to work perfectly fine and it's not consistently giving me problems that's what's so frustrating. I went to church yesterday and it started back fine to come back home. I'm just worried about hurting my car using it just for the essential things needed and I hate to have to ask anyone to take me anywhere and yes, I know everyone needs help at one time or other I'm just one to do ask much.
Again, thank you for helping me to have a better understanding about my car problem.
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Monday, May 30th, 2022 AT 12:28 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

No problem whatsoever. Since the starter always engages, the neutral safety switch isn't causing the no-start condition. The neutral safety switch would prevent the starter from engaging if it were bad.

When the engine cranks and doesn't start, usually it is the result of an ignition spark issue or there is no fuel making its way to the engine.

Do me a favor. Read through this link and let me know if it seems to mirror what you experience. If it does, then I can explain how to check the crankshaft position sensor.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

Let me know.

Joe
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Monday, May 30th, 2022 AT 7:15 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
Thank you so much. It has always started when I get into to go somewhere but the starting problem is usually when I try to start it back to come home but other times it starts back fine. Like this morning I had to go get a cashier's check for my rent because the new owner hasn't given me their account info so I can set it up in bill pay. Anyway it started back fine so on my way back home I stopped at Ingles because it's on my way home and came out to go home and same problem so I put into neutral but it didn't work this time so I tried it back in park and it worked but I always pull up and back in because it's easier to pull out than backing in when the parking lot is full. I get too nervous trying to judge backing out, but I didn't back up far enough and it's not being very cooperative so I'm taking a break from my car's starting issues and take my furry baby for a walk and a potty break. Once again feeling like it's a hopeless situation again. So, I will try it again in a bit. I just need to get away from my car's starting issues for a bit. Also, I haven't tried that link you sent me yet but will let you know when I do. Again, thank you for your help.
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Tuesday, May 31st, 2022 AT 8:27 AM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
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I read through the info about the crank shaft sensor and yes, I've wondered about the heat and cool having something to do with the starting problem. As far as I can remember it's always started from home after sitting here and the starting problem is after I've been to the store and get back in it to go back home but there's never been any dash lights on or smelled hot nothing to indicate it's overheated. So, I guess, I paid $328.00 for a new starter I didn't need one. My car did idle fast but no, it's stalled yet while I'm driving and hope it never does. It did one time a couple of years ago at the red light in Boones Creek, but I never heard it quit. A police officer helped me to push it off the road and lock it and gave the business where we used it and gave the keys to give tow truck when they had time to come and pick it up. They said it was the main timing belt and with parts and labor it was over $400.00 for a new timing belt. I'm not taking my car back there I think they weren't being honest me after reading that most vehicles will start both in park and neutral, so why tell me it was the neutral switch and I need to get a new one and that it would only take about an hour and take about 30 when they knew they'd just had put a new starter, plugs and wires on my car. Doesn't a garage carry one those thingy tools most of the time to test it? The main timing belt cost almost $400 not counting labor. Would the odmometer they use to test a car at most auto parts stores for free tell if it's the crankshaft or camshaft sensor?
Again, thank you for all of your help
I really appreciate it.
Thanks again, Trudy Yates
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Tuesday, May 31st, 2022 AT 5:09 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 108,205 POSTS
Hi,

Interestingly, a faulty crankshaft position sensor may or may not set a code. Because a crankshaft position sensor is related to engine speed when they fail it may not trigger a check engine light. This is because there are some things that can stop the crankshaft position sensor's signal that will have nothing to do with the sensor going bad such as running out of gas or stalling the engine when letting the clutch pedal out too quickly.

Does your vehicle have a tachometer? If it does, when it won't start, watch to see if it moves a little when cranking the engine. If the crankshaft position sensor is bad, it won't move.

In a shop, they have what is called live data scanners and can check for an RPM signal when cranking. It makes it a little easier.

Let me know what I can do to help.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, May 31st, 2022 AT 8:56 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
I replied to your message above but dummy me didn't send it. There is no tachometer in my car and if the problem is because of the crankshaft sensor being bad that would clear up why it's always started from home but then when I start to go back home it might start and it might not. I never know because it's not every single time. Yesterday when I went to the bank started like it usually does and when I tried to start it again it was fine, and I went to Ingles and then when I came out to go back home it didn't start so I tried it in neutral again but this time it didn't start in neutral either, so I put it back into park and it started. When I got back home and pulled up to back in because my parking is almost too narrow when everyone is home, I can't pull up to back in because I'm not good at judging how close I am, and I didn't back up far enough and didn't notice until I got out. I quit trying to back in for a while but later when I went back outside to start my car to back up more it started fine so it's starting fine when the engine is cool but after it's warm from driving it, it doesn't want to start again. Crankshaft sensors aren't cheap and there'll also be labor included again. Idk what to do right now with my landlord selling this property last week and not letting any of us know what he was planning to do was wrong and the new owners are raising the rent almost $200.00 telling us they had to raise our rent to meet the market value. I understand all that but good lord almost $200.00 with no warning is not right in my opinion. Oh well shouldn't be surprised since everything else is getting higher also. It's a crazy world we live in today.
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Wednesday, June 1st, 2022 AT 4:08 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

If you supply the part, labor calls for 0.7 hours, so about 45 minutes. Don't let them overcharge you.

On the other hand, it really isn't hard to replace. It is located right next to the crankshaft pulley. There are two bolts that hold it in. The worst part is removing the splash shield under the vehicle if it is still attached. LOL

Here is a link that explains in general how it's done.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/crankshaft-angle-sensor-replacement

If you look at the attached pics, they provide the directions specific to your vehicle. Please note that for whatever reason, they start by referring to it as a crankshaft position sensor. Then, they call it a camshaft position sensor. That was an error. The directions are all related to the crankshaft sensor.

Let me know. If you want to do it yourself, I can help you through the procedure.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below. Note: Pic 5 shows the flat rate/ labor allotted for the repair. They shouldn't charge you for any longer. Also, the OEM part number is listed and the price. If you purchase one online, they usually provide the OEM part number in addition to their own. Just make sure you are getting the correct one. I looked it up on rockauto for you and crossed referenced it. The cost is 7.50 plus shipping. See the last pic.

Also, here is a code for an additional 5% off the part. Copy and paste it in the section that asks how you learned about them.

203171354183710334

Please understand that neither 2carpros nor I have anything to do with Rockauto. I'm just trying to make it a little easier. I don't want you to think in any way that we get a kickback.

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Wednesday, June 1st, 2022 AT 8:47 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
I don't know if I want to do this but then again, I've already learned all the parts and what each one does or is supposed to do and the prices. I know more than I ever have or ever wanted to and that's the reason a light went off when the guy that said it was my starter, plugs and wires and that didn't take care of it when. He kept texting me and calling me saying it was the neutral switch and that he could order it and do it the next day in less than an hour just because I told him when it wouldn't start I tried it in neutral and it started but I know most of the time cars will start in both park and neutral anyway and that I just paid to put a new starter on my car so it should be fine, but everything I've read and what you said if the starter is working it's not the neutral switch I started questioning if he was genuinely trying to help or just trying to take advantage of me because I'm a woman and most women do not know that much about the mechanical parts of our vehicles. That's sad but true so I didn't take my car back to him. He sent me another text yesterday after I had just told him on Thursday that I wasn't going to do anything else about my car until I knew more about whether or not I was going to have to move too.
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Saturday, June 4th, 2022 AT 10:49 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I understand and feel the same. When you decide to jump back into this, let me know. Also, make sure the mechanic knows that when it doesn't start, the starter motor still engages, so you don't think it's a park/neutral switch.

Take good care of yourself and let me know when I can help.

Joe
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Saturday, June 4th, 2022 AT 10:03 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
  • 11 POSTS
Hi Joe, this is Trudy. Sorry it's been crazy here but finally got good news about my apartment. My caseworker worker with Section 8 and he said that they'd already had this conversation with the new owner. When they signed a contract with Section 8 they agreed to abide by their guidelines, and they could not raise my rent. The only one that can do that is them and it would never be $200.00 more. Whenever there's a cost of living increase my part of the rent goes up a little, maybe $5.00, but it always balances out the difference so no big deal. I think we all deserved a little notice of the upcoming changes but from what I understand legally my landlord didn't have to let anyone know and any management can raise the rent for whatever they choose, there's no guideline which I think is a little scary but not surprising with all the price increases on gas and everything else since the pandemic started.
My car is doing the same, it might do fine for a couple of days then the same thing, starts from home but not when I get back in it to go home and sometimes putting it in neutral helps but not always. I'm trying to save enough to pay for fixing it and have filled out a couple of applications for emergency funds for car repairs through the DHS office in Washington County TN so someone from my church is helping when I need to go anywhere.
It's a waiting game and with my anxiety, panic and OCD issues that's not been easy to do, lol.
Anyway, if I don't hear anything soon, I may try it myself and that scares me because with my luck I'll probably end up making it worse but on the other hand not much worse than just sitting here.
Again, thank you for your patience and time helping the crazy neurotic woman. Actually, typing out all of this has helped make things easier.
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Friday, June 24th, 2022 AT 11:34 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

It's nice to hear from you. I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems. As far as the sensor is concerned, it really isn't too hard to replace. I'm here if you run into trouble, so don't be afraid.

Also, you can get in touch with me anytime, especially if it helps. Also, get rid of the what is in your mind. No matter what, there are always options. Put your worries in God's hands and ask him to help take care of things. You would be surprised. It works for me all the time. It worked for my wife. She has a brain tumor that was requiring a second major operation. Let's put it this way. I asked and asked for help. We went for an MRI Pre-surgery. She doesn't need a second operation. The tumor is shrinking all by itself. I know why and who is taking care of it.

Take good care of yourself, and remember, you are always welcome here. I enjoy hearing from you, and I know I can get you through replacing the sensor. LOL

Joe
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Friday, June 24th, 2022 AT 8:35 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
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Hey Joe,

Thanks for sharing about your wife. My car problems are nothing in comparison to what you and your wife have been going through.

Both my stepbrother and my son had cancer. One had testicular cancer and my son had Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. Both have been cancer free for over 20 years. Chemo and radiation help but, both have lifetime long term effect some not so good. I know I have trust issues which have made it harder for me to put my faith into anyone or anything but with baby steps and church family it's getting easier. Anyway, you and your wife are always in my thoughts and prayers. Again, thank you for sharing.

Trudy

Prayers, 98 Ford Escort LX and my fur baby Buddy with his little playdate Shelley. I dog sit for people at my church and Buddy loves them as much as I enjoy having and watching them.
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Sunday, June 26th, 2022 AT 6:52 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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OMG! I love dogs. LOL I'm sorry to hear about your sons. However, have faith. It's not my business to know why you struggle with trust, but there is one that you can always trust, God. He is there for you and me both and we don't even realize it until something happens.

I'm sorry. I shouldn't talk that way, but I don't want people to suffer. You seem like such a great person. You don't deserve what you experience. Put your faith where it needs to be. I could talk with you for hours. Ask Padre Pio (Father Pio) to pray for you. My family knew him personally. Look up his name and learn about him.

On the other hand, let me know what I can do to help with the vehicle issues. LOL I have no financial benefit in your vehicle. I only want to help, and I promise I will to do the best of my ability.

Take care of yourself. And, let your sons know my prayers are with them as well.

Joe
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Sunday, June 26th, 2022 AT 8:10 PM
Tiny
WILDFLOWER1960
  • MEMBER
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Hi Joe,

I replied to your message but can't tell if it sent or not so you may get a couple of the same ones and I'm sorry.
Anyway, I found a coupon on Firestones website for $9.95 that will cover checking everything and then providing me with a printout of their findings if anything and help me to find the cheapest most reliable place to take my car to. Beginning to feel like this was too good to be true, so I don't know? My first appt was for Saturday but as I was walking out the door they called to reschedule, and I did it was for today at 12:00pm. But, at 11:00 they called to cancel again and wanted me to reschedule again but it's beginning to feel like it was too good to be true. I don't know, but not doing this over and over again, because they don't understand what it's doing to me because I have no off switch in my brain/mind and can't just let it go.
Okay, so I order the part from Rocketpro and attach the code you attached?
Attaching a couple more video's/photo's of Buddy and his playdates. Sorry no matter what I tried to do I couldn't remove the duplicate videos and or photos.
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Monday, June 27th, 2022 AT 10:52 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Love the videos. LOL My shelty has the same orange ball and will drive me crazy until I play with him. He throws it at my feet.

As far as the part, did you mean it was ordered from Rockauto. Com? If so, yes to the code. If I recall, when you start checking out, it will ask where you learned about them. That is where the code will go.

If for some reason the code doesn't take the 5% off, let me know. It should be good but could have expired. I'll get you a different one if needed.

Take care and stay in touch.

Joe
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Monday, June 27th, 2022 AT 8:25 PM

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