Mechanics

VEHICLE RUNS VERY ROUGH LIKE IT IS MISSING

2000 Pontiac Grand Am

Engine Performance problem
2000 Pontiac Grand Am 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 105000 miles

My 2000 Grand Am just recently started to run very rough when idling and when it is put into gear such as drive or reverse it will run even rougher and occasionally stall out. This has been a recent problem and I did not want to waste a bunch of money on parts that was not required to fix the problem. So I hope that you may be able to give me possible solutions.
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Brett19
February 24, 2009.




Hello -

To better assist you please tell me if your model is a GT or SE. Also your engine size in liter and the 8th digit of your VIN.

Please go to Auto Zone (AZ) or O'Reilly's (OR) and for FREE they can pull the codes to the car. Most important: Once they check your codes, if they find something and you don't get it fixed and need to get back with us, please make sure you tell us exactly what the code was, number and all. Example, if the code was E0568 O2 Sensor bad. Then make sure you give us all of that. While there for FREE also they can bring their tester out and check your battery and alternator.

Thank you very much for the donation

Please let us know if what the final fix was for your car so we can better assist others. Thanks!

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ImpalaSS
Feb 24, 2009.
It is a SE with a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder. I would take it to one of those shops but I can't go very far without the car stalling out. Could it be the spark plugs?

Tiny
Brett19
Feb 24, 2009.
Hello -

Thanks for the info.

Okay - you can still go to AZ or OR and use their tool check out program and bring the code scanner home and check the codes yourself.

Good idea about the spark plugs. But the stalling when going into gear may mean something else.

It could be several things which is why we want to check for codes.

It could be the torque converter locking up.

The rough idle could be a sticking EGR valve, the IAC, MAF etc.

Try to get the code scanner and check the codes.

Also check the TCC

Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid (Except 1.9L)
NOTE: Some solenoids may have an internal pressure switch in series with the solenoid winding and will not show continuity until transmission hydraulic pressure is applied.
Disconnect Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid harness connector. Using DVOM, measure resistance between appropriate TCC solenoid terminals. Solenoid resistance should be greater than 20 ohms.

Let me know

Thank you very much for the donation

Please let us know if what the final fix was for your car so we can better assist others. Thanks!

Find a car repair manual for your car repair questions.

ImpalaSS
Feb 24, 2009.
I did go to AZ and the code that came up was that one or multiple cylinders misfiring. I replaced all four spark plugs, both ignition coils and the air idle control. After driving the car for maybe five miles it stalled out and the exaust system was glowing red hot. I actually had to get the vehicle towed back to my house. Could it be the crank sensor? I would appreciate any other help you may be able to offer. This may help as well I have copied the problem code from AZ.

Trouble Code: P0300
Multiple Engine Misfire Detected
Possible Causes: " Base engine mechanical fault that affects one or more cylinders
" Fuel metering fault that affects more than one cylinder
" Fuel pressure too low or too high, fuel supply contaminated
" EVAP system problem or the EVAP canister is fuel saturated
" EGR valve is stuck open or PCV system has a vacuum leak
" IC control circuit is shorted to ground (an intermittent fault)
" Ignition system fault (a coil) that affects more than one cylinder
" TSB 87-65-08 contains a repair procedure for this code
" TSB 03-06-04-030 contains a repair procedure for this code
" TSB 03-06-04-055 contains a repair procedure for this code

Tiny
Brett19
Mar 8, 2009.
If your exuast is that hot sounds like you might have problems with the catalytic converter
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Tiny
BlueMystc5
Mar 8, 2009.
Hello -

Okay brett19 - great job on the info. Sorry the car broke down but the good is we are getting more info. So hang in there. You are doing a great job! . Thanks for that!

When you say the exhaust was glowing red. Was it the exhaust manifold or the catalytic converter?

Though I would like to wait until I get an answer before I suggest things. We will press anyway and kind of go back and forth and I will try not to have you do something you don't need too.

Please turn ignition off. Perform a visual inspection of the following. Check vacuum hoses for splits, kinks and proper routing. Check for leaks at throttle body, intake manifold, EGR valve and PCV system. Check PCM grounds for proper connection. Check injector harness connectors for proper installation.

I would really like to know what the fuel pressure is. You do this by: Turn ignition off. Install fuel pressure gauge. Start engine and allow it to idle. Fuel pressure should be 42-55 psi

Though you changed all of this, please make sure you get a good spark. Disconnect spark plug boot from companion cylinder at ignition coil housing and install a fused jumper wire between ground and spark plug connector at ignition coil housing (1-4 or 2-3). Crank engine and check for spark. Is there a spark present at all cylinders?

Turn ignition off. Remove spark plug boot assemblies from affected coil at IC housing. Connect a DVOM between the secondary ignition coil terminals (spark plug connectors 1-4 or 2-3) at ignition coil housing. Resistance should be 4000-8000 ohms. What is it?

Do you have an alarm system that was installed on the vehicle? After searching through about 200 TSBs, I saw this one?

Misfire DTCs P0300, P1380, P1381 and Catalytic Converter Damage Due to Installation of Alarm Systems
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Number(s): 02-06-05-004b, Date of Issue: February 14, 2006
Affected Model(s): 2006 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks; 2006 and Prior HUMMER H2, H3; 2006 and Prior Isuzu Light Duty Trucks
Supercedes: This bulletin is being revised to add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-05-004A (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
Related Ref Number(s): 02-06-05-004, 02-06-05-004A, 02-06-05-004B
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
General Motors Engineering, in an effort to determine the root cause of catalytic converter damage, has determined that aftermarket alarm systems incorrectly installed in vehicles have the potential to cause misfire codes and damage to the converter. These alarm systems use a circuit interrupt which utilizes the ignition circuit on the vehicles.
You may be running rich - so that is what I need to know what item on the exhaust is glowing red? If you want to at least get back with me on that before you do the other things that is okay.

Thank you BlueMystc5 for your suggestion. He may have that but we need to do a few more checks to make sure.

Thank you very much for the donation

Please let us know if what the final fix was for your car so we can better assist others. Thanks!

Find a car repair manual for your car repair questions.

ImpalaSS
Mar 8, 2009.
It definitely was not the manifold directly connected to the engine. It was glowing hot right underneath the driver/passenger area of the exhaust. There is a enlarged part of the exhaust at this location is this the catylitic convertor? I am not 100% sure what this convertor looks like. It was where the exhaust system actually bolts together. Also when the car is started now the whole exhaust system vibrates very bad. There is no alarm system on the vehicle.

Tiny
Brett19
Mar 8, 2009.
Sounds to me like the catalytic converter may be plugged or the engine is running very lean. If the engine was running that lean then it should have showed up when you had the codes checked at AZ. And also should be glowing red at the exhaust manifold and not under the car. If the converter is plugged then they should have the correct tools to diagnose this at your local exhaust shop.

Tiny
Bildo76
Mar 8, 2009.
Hello -

Okay........it wasn't the exhaust manifold..............that connects to a pipe that goes into the catalytic converter.........then there is a pipe from the converter to the muffler, then from the muffler out the tail..........

In the pic below what was red?


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Exhaust_1.jpg



Was there a rotten egg smell or any color smoke out the tail?

Thank you very much for the donation

Please let us know if what the final fix was for your car so we can better assist others. Thanks!

Find a car repair manual for your car repair questions.

ImpalaSS
Mar 8, 2009.
It would have been pipe 1 and the catylitic convertor glowing red hot.

Tiny
Brett19
Mar 9, 2009.

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