Mechanics

WHINING NOISE IN REAR AXLE

1999 Ford F-150 • 78 miles

I replaced the pinion bearing, bearing seal, and axle seals. The pinion bearing was shot, looked like it had been welded together. It looked fine inside differential, nothing broken just a metalic color to fluid. I know fluid had run low but not empty caused by a couple of pin holes in cover. No visible sign of where on gears. Could it have something to do with tourqe on yoke nut when put back together?
Avatar
Wahl
January 14, 2012.




WHAT WAS YOUR TORQUE PROCEDURE? (EXACTLY WHAT WAS YOUR METHOD? TOOLS?)

WAS THERE A CRUSH SLEEVE?

DID YOU USE A NEW ONE?

DID YOU INSTALL NEW RACES?

THE MEDIC


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Jan 14, 2012.
1) From everything I have read I just marked the yoke and counted turns of retaining nut(that got rid of slop in yoke) after new bearing install.
2) yes there was crush sleeve
3) My understanding is that original could be reused if I followed the proceedure in? #1
4) I only installed the outer pinion bearing (along with new race)and seal of course.
I guess my? Is can you overtighten or undertighten the yoke nut(i'm sure you can)
What is the best way to tourqe this?
I know this is hard for you to answer whith out seeing, driving, hearing, but just trying to get a direction to go in. If nut was not tight enough could this cause the noise?
I have read that as you descellerate the pinion is retracted into the ring gear. That is where my thoughts are going


Tiny
Wahl
Jan 14, 2012.
I SORTA UNDERSTAND HOW CRITICAL IT IS TO SHIM THINGS AND GET THE PRECISE PRELOAD REQUIRED TO MAKE THINGS WORK CORRECTLY. SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE HAS ALREADY FIGURED OUT HEAT EXPANSION AND CONTRACTION ETC ETC

I'M A (REAL) JEEP KINDA GUY AND HAVE DIYED SEVERAL OF MY OWN, AND ASSISTED MANY OTHERS WITH THEIRS---I HAVE SEEN THE RESULTS OF THINGS BEING DONE "IN A HURRY" OR "HALF-DONE" OR "DON'T CARE" SITUATIONS----I'VE ALSO SEEN THINGS DONE IN A "PERFECTION" AND "STERILE" AND "CONCERNED" ENVIRONMENT, AND SOMETHING STILL GO WRONG!

MY MANNER TO APPROACH ANY TASK IS TO BE PREPARED THE BEST YOU CAN BE. FOR ME--PAPER REPAIR MANUALS HAVE BEEN MY FRIENDS (FACTORY MANUALS EVEN BETTER) I UNDERSTAND TERMS LIKE SHIM, PRELOAD, BACKLASH, END-PLAY, ETC--THE "WHYS" AND "HOWS". MAJOR JOBS I DO MAY NOT BE UNDERSTANDING FULLY, I WILL ASK AROUND, BUT IN THE END, I USUALLY WILL BACKTRACK AND VERIFY THE "HEARSAY" IS INDEED "FACT" IN A MANUAL OR FOUND IN PRINT (NOW THAT I CAN RUN A COMPUTER)

THINGS FRED OR JIMMY TELLS YOU, OR WHAT THEY SAW ONE TIME, 3 YEARS AGO AT THE TRANNY SHOP, OR "I THINK" IS NOT A GOOD SENTENCE BEGINNING, WHEN YOUR MONEY AND/ OR LIFE MAY BE AT STAKE!

I DO NOT DO DIFFS A LOT, I DO WHATEVER I, FAMILY, AND FRIENDS HAVE HAVE TORN UP. IF I CAN. I HAVE BEEN REALLY TEARING INTO MOST EVERY COMPONENT OF JEEP CJs SINCE 1981 WHEN THEY TURNED ME LOOSE ON THE ROAD! 'BOUT THE ONLY THINGS I HAVE NOT TRIED ARE "AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS" AND "PRECISE WHEEL ALIGNMENTS" (HAVE DONE SOME TEMPORARY, "GET BY" ONES)

THIS IS INFO SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU. I DO NOT HAVE YOUR PAPER MANUAL, I DO HAVE ACCESS TO "MITCHELL I" AN ONLINE MANUAL WHICH COVERS A LOT OF CARS (FROM WHAT I SEE, MOSTLY '80s ON UP) I'M NEW TO THE CYBER WORLD (2 YEARS, NOW 48 YEARS YOUNG) THIS MANUAL IS THOROUGH, I'M TRYING TO LEARN IT, IT IS NOT SET UP NUTHIN' LIKE A HAYNES OR CHILTON. IT'S A "SPIFF" WE GET AT THIS SITE FOR ANSWERING. IT HAS HELPED A GOOD BIT SO FAR, I LIKE IT 'CAUSE IT COVERS MOST CARS IN THE U.S. EVEN THOUGH I MIGHT KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT A CAR, I STILL MIGHT BE ABLE TO THROW OUT A WIRE DIAGRAM ETC.

I LOOKED UP DIFF, I TOOK SCREEN SHOTS (6) THE 1ST SHOT AND SOME OF THE SPECS IN THE LATTER ONES APPLY TO YOU. LOOKS LIKE THEY HAD 2 REARS FOR YOUR TRUCK, ONE STANDARD AND THE OTHER "LIMITED SLIP"

FURTHER BACK. SEAL REPLACEMENT

THE MEDIC


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Jan 14, 2012.
Thank you very much for your quick reply. After further exam today I noticed the pinion yoke looked loose. Removed drive shaft and yoke was very loose. It appears that when I torqued down yoke nut, yoke was not fully seated, so, I drilled two holes in a piece of flat stock and bolted it in place of drive shaft. Then proceeded with torque wrench and tightened yoke nut to 100ft/pnds(yes foot/pounds).
Very happy to say all seems well now!
Do not drive truck much, so within the next week or so I should have put 50 miles on it so just for laughs I will Probably check torque again.
Thanks much CJ


Tiny
Wahl
Jan 14, 2012.
I'M BACK NOW

B-DAY PARTY FOR GRANDMONSTER W/ OTHER LITTLE EVIL BEINGS PRESENT

TO KEEP FROM GOING INSANE, I SORTA THOUGHT ON HOW I WOULD FINISH THIS POST

I'M WORKING ON IT NOW (BELOW AS YOU READ THIS)

---30 MINUTES OR LESS OR IT'S FREE!

THE MEDIC
AD


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Jan 14, 2012.
"FURTHER BACK. SEAL REPLACEMENT" WERE MY WAY OF STAYING ON TRACK, I'VE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH "CRS"!

FURTHER BACK IN THIS CONFUSING MANUAL, IT MENTIONED YOKE SEAL REPLACEMENT.I REALLY THINK IT IS MEANT TO BE THAT INNER AND OUTER PINION BEARINGS SHOULD BE DONE IN SETS, NOT JUST THE "EZ"ONE. HOWEVER THE SEAL CAN BE REPLACED BY ITSELF, AND AS I THOUGHT (AS WITH A JEEP CJ MODEL 20 REAR) A NEW CRUSH SLEEVE IS USED

WITHOUT ME READING THE WHOLE WORKS, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU "TIGHTEN" (CRUSH) CHECK THE ROTATIONAL "DRAG" WITH AN "NEEDLE TYPE" IN/LB TORQUE WRENCH (ATTACHED TO THE PINION NUT)---NORMALLY THIS IS CHECKED WITH THE AXLES OUT AND DIFF CARRIER REMOVED, . ONLY THE PINIONS PRE-LOAD WOULD DRAG AGAINST THE TORQUE WRENCH. NOT THE WHOLE SYSTEM!

BUT I KNOW YOU ARE WANTING TO "CHEAT". BUT."CHEAT TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY"---TO MAKE IT "AS RIGHT AS POSSIBLE, WHILE CHEATING"

I'M GONNA GIVE YOU AS MUCH CORRECT INFO AS I CAN, BUT I WILL ALSO INTERJECT MY "CHEAT OPINION", HITHER AND YON. "CHEAT OPINION" IS SORTA "DO AT YOUR OWN RISK!" (AS YOU AND I BOTH KNOW IT'S NOT TEXTBOOK PROCEDURE)

OK MY 1ST PIC IS A YOKE HOLDING TOOL I WHIPPED OUT WHEN I WAS IN THE 11TH GRADE IN HIGH SCHOOL MACHINE SHOP (IN THE PIC, I'M, USING IT ON A TRANSFER CASE (NO CRUSH SLEEVE, USES WASHER LIKE SHIMMING TO PRE-LOAD IT'S BEARINGS) (MUCH BETTER THAN A GIANT PIPE WRENCH)

IN THE "MITCHELL I" SNAPSHOTS THE CORRECT SPECS ARE GIVEN FOR THE WHOLE PROCESS."I'D SAY YOUR APPROACH YOU NEED THE 4TH MITCHELL DIAGRAM (TOP CHART, "PINION BEARING PRE-LOAD"---NEW BEARINGS IS 16-29 IN/LBsUSED IS 8-14 IN/LBs.

I WOULD "CHEAT THIS", HERE'S WHY AND HOW: WE'RE GONNA LIGHTEN WEIGHT AS MUCH AS WE CAN---LOSE BOTH REAR WHEELS. WE WILL STILL BE TURNING THE AXLES (AT LEAST ONE WILL) AND ALSO THE CARRIER AND RING INSIDE, AS WELL AS THE PINION MESHING WITH THE RING INSIDE THE DIFF. MORE THAT THE BOOK WANTS YOU TO!

WHEN YOU USE THE NEEDLE TYPE IN/LB TORQUE WRENCH YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO TURN IT IN CIRCLES KINDA SLOW WHILE AT THE SAME TIME READING THE NEEDLE

THE CHEAT IS GOING TO BE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE EXTRA WEIGHT AND DRAG YOU HAVE NOW (THAT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE). THE HIGH END IS 32 INCH/LBS ON THE CHART. LET'S USE THAT, OR MAYBE UP IT TO 35 IN/LBSs

FROM EXPERIENCE AND SEEING STUFF SHELL OUT OR GET LOOSE---I WOULD USE A NEW CRUSH SLEEVE!

WHEN YOU START CRUSHING, IT IS EXTREMELY HARD.I USE A BREAKER BAR / PULL HANDLE. CRUSH UNTIL YOU DO NOT FEEL ANY "SIDEWAYS WOBBLE" OR SLOP IN THE BEARINGS. GO SLOW.1/8 OR LESS OF A TURN AT A TIMEUSING AN IMPACT WRENCH, STUFF MOVES WAY TOO FAST AND USUALLY THE IGNORANT CHEATERS GO TOO TIGHT! THEN BACK OFF! (IF YOU EVER BACK OFF, YOU'RE 'SPOTA INSTALL A NEW CRUSH SLEEVE!) THEY NEVER USE A TORQUE WRENCH!---THEIR "FEEL" IS FACTORY CALIBRATED. SEEN THIS SCENARIO MANY TIMES!

ONCE YOU HAVE THE SLOP OUT, YOU WILL BE TIGHTENING--REMOVING THE HOLDING TOOL--CHECKING TORQUE (ROTATIONAL DRAG)RE-INSTALL HOLD TOOL--TIGHTEN--REMOVE TOOL AGAIN---CHECK TORQUE----REPEAT PROCESS. AGAIN SLOW AND EZ. OVERTIGHTENING IS A BAD THING, AND WE ARE ALREADY BREAKING THE RULES. WHEN YOU REACH 35 IN/LBs. STOP. STICK YOU WITH A FORK. YOU ARE DONE!

JUST TO BE SURE YOUR ARE SORTA RIGHT--GRAB THE YOKE AND REALLY FORCE IT SIDEWAYS. BACK AND FORTH--THERE SHOULD BE NO SLOP!---IF THERE IS THE CRUSH SLEEVE DID NOT CRUSH!---NOW GRAB IT IN THE FRONT--PUSH AND PULL FORWARD AND REARWARD---IT SHOULD NOT MOVE!

THE ONLY MOVEMENT SHOULD BE ROTATIONAL!----AND IT SHOULD ROTATED SMOOTHLY!

THE FACTORY MANUALS (OLD ONES ANYWAY) ARE SO EZ TO UNDERSTAND

YES, I TYPE SLOW, MORE THAN 30 MINUTES. INFO IS FREE!

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Jan 15, 2012.

AD