Mechanics

JEEP DJ5 STARTER PROBLEM

1977 Jeep DJ5 • 60,000 miles

Bought this Jeep and drove it 150 miles.
Put it on blocks and replaced starter, starter solenoid, all hoses, all gaskets, ignition switch, alternator.
The engine was rebuilt 6 years ago.
Since replacing above parts the starter will not crank. I have tried 3 starter solenoids including the original that was on the vehicle when I last drove it.
Nothing when I turn ignition.
The starter works when I place cable from the battery to the starter, it will turn.
The solenoid originally had a neutral back up safety wire but was not attached when I bought the Jeep.
I have since tried everything to get this engine to crank.
I am at my wits end!
Again, I believe it has to do with the solenoid but can't figure it out. I am getting voltage to the ignition wire on the solenoid and voltage to the back up safety switch but no power from the battery to the starter post on the solenoid.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Avatar
Guest
January 20, 2013.




SORRY I DID NOT SEE YOU SOONER

I TRY TO KEEP UP WITH THE CJ 5s AND CJ 7s BY KEEPING TRACK OF THE #s OF OF QUESTIONS WHEN YOU CLICK ON "JEEP" ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOME PAGE

I TRY TO KEEP UP WITH SOME OF THE OTHER OLDER JEEPS ALSO, BUT I RECKON I MISSED YOU!

YOU HAVE A 258 WITH AN AUTOMATIC TRANNY?

HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANYWHERE WITH THIS PUPPY. LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE HAD A MONTH

DO YOU HAVE POWER TO THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE COIL?

DO YOU HAVE 12 VOLTS ON THE "S" WIRE (REMOVED FROM THE SOLENOID) WHEN THE KEY IS TURNED TO START?

ARE YOU HOOKED UP LIKE THIS ON THE SOLENOID?

A-B-C-D LABEL THE TERMINALS1-6 ARE THE WIRES

1) POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE

2) CABLE TO STARTER

THESE MAY BE SWAPPED OPPOSITE ON YOURS (1& 2). IT'S BEST TO RIG IT LIKE I HAVE IT (THIS AIDS IN USING A SCREWDRIVER TO "REMOTE" TURN IT OVER)

3) AND 4)----THIS IS IGN WIRES AND ALL ACCESSORIES. THEY STACK AGAINST THE POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE (WHEREVER YOU PUT THE POSITIVE CABLE)

"3" AND "4" ARE ALSO "FUSIBLE LINKS" ON MY 2 JEEPS---ONE IS MARKED WITH A TAG, THE OTHER IS NOT. BOTH ARE LIKE "LAST DITCH EFFORT" FUSES----THE WIRE INSIDE WILL MELT IF BAD STUFF HAPPENS----SOMETIMES YOU CAN SEE THE INSULATION DEFORMED, OTHER TIMES IF YOU PULL ON THE WIRE, THE INSULATION WILL STRETCH OUT LIKE A RUBBER-BAND (THE WIRE IS SHOT INSIDE). THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN TO TOO MANY JEEPS, BUT IT IS SOMETHING TO REMEMBER!

5) "S" WIRE IS "HOT" (12V) ONLY WHEN YOUR KEY IS IN THE "START POSITION". THIS 12 VOLTS INTRODUCED INTO THE TERMINAL MAKES THE SOLENOID'S ELECTROMAGNET WORK TO CONNECT "1" AND "2" WHICH MAKES THE STARTER TURN OVER

6) THIS IS "I" TERMINAL OR WIRE----THIS TERMINAL BECOMES ENERGIZED WITH FULL BATTERY VOLTAGE WHEN THE SOLENOID GETS ENERGIZEDTHIS GIVES THE COIL A "BOOST" WHILE THE ENGINE IS TURNING OVER (AS THE STARTER IS "STEALING" THE POWER THAT NORMALLY WOULD BE FEEDING THE COIL (ON POSITION OF THE KEY)ONCE THE ENGINE "BUSTS OFF" AND IS RUNNING, THEN YOU RELEASE THE KEY AND "S" AND "I" SORTA DIE OUT----THE COIL THEN RUNS OFF OF THE REDUCED VOLTAGE PROVIDED FROM THE "ON" POSITION OF THE KEY

JUST FOR YOUR INFO---WHEN "I" TERMINAL "DIES" (BATTERY FULL VOLTS) THE ENGINE IS NOW RUNNING--- THE "I" WIRE WILL "NOW SHOW" THE REDUCED VOLTAGE THAT IS NOW FEEDING THE COIL (MINE IS A LITTLE OVER 7 VOLTS)

. THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR A NEWER MOTORCRAFT IGN SYSTEM

. THE OLDER PRESTOLITE WILL SHOW BATTERY/ ALTERNATOR VOLTAGE, AS IT DOES NOT HAVE A RESISTOR WIRE TO THE COIL

I FOUND THE PRESTOLITE TO HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH THE IGN MODULE, EZ TO BREAK WIRES INTO THE DISTRIBUTOR, THE MECHANICAL ADVANCE SPRINGS BREAKING SEVERAL TIMES AND THE VACUUM ADVANCE MECHANISM HANGING UP IN THE DISTRIBUTOR (THIS WAS IN MY 1977 CJ 5) I CHANGED IT ALL OUT, WITH MINIMAL REWIRING, TO A "MOTORCRAFT IGN SYSTEM", WHICH CAME OUT IN THE 1979 MODELS AND WAS USED ALL THE WAY TO '86 CJs AND '89 WRANGLERS

I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM SINCE!

THE DIAGRAM I'M SENDING IS OF A '79---IT WILL BE SIMILAR TO YOURS---YOURS DOES NOT HAVE A RESISTOR WIRE---MOST LIKELY DO NOT HAVE THE MOTORCRAFT IGN. BUT. THIS WAS GOVERNMENT STUFF, ANYTHING COULD BE POSSIBLE

I HAVE COMPLETE WIRE DIAGRAMS FOR FOR A '77 AND '79 CJ 5 OR CJ 7.I COLORED THE WIRES MYSELF IN "MICROSOFT PAINT". THEY MIGHT AID YOU?

I EVEN EMAILED THE 2 HALVES TO AN OFFICE STORE, THEY BLEW 'EM UP, I OVERLAPPED THEM TO MATCH, THEY LAMINATED THE "NOW ONE PIECE" DIAGRAM---I NOW HAVE AN EZ TO READ DIAGRAM TAPED UP IN MY GARAGE

SEND BACK ALL OF YOUR FINDINGS.I HAVE LOTS MORE STUFF, SHOULD IF WE NEED TO GO THERE!

UPDATE ME---ASK OTHER QUESTIONS

THE MEDIC


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Mar 13, 2013.
Thanks Medic for your response. Sorry I am so late in answering but I broke my foot and am just now returning to my Jeep.
My solenoid hook up is a little different as follows: A post I have the battery and fusible link to junction block
B post I have the starter cable
C post(S) was vacant when I purchased Jeep; I attached the safety/back up switch purple wire
D post(I) white wire to ignition/key
When I turn the key 12 volts are on the I wire but no voltage to the S wire.
I have replaced the solenoid 2 times and still nothing to the starter?
Could I hook a wire to the S post that is hot when the key is turned?
I don't understand how it was cranking the starter when I purchased with just the I wire hook up and nothing on the S post?
Thanks again for your expertise. The photos and drawings are helping considerably.
If I ever get this thing cranked and running I will owe you big time!
I look forward to your response.
77JeepDj5


Tiny
77jeepdj5
Apr 21, 2013.
"C post(S) was vacant when I purchased Jeep; I attached the safety/back up switch purple wire"

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE "SAFETY/ BACK UP SWITCH" PART

MY PIC SHOWS HOW IT SHOULD BE

MAYBE YOUR "D" SHOULD ACTUALLY BE ON "C"

"C" ("S" TERMINAL) GETS 12 VOLTS FROM THE KEY BEING IN THE "START" POSITION---THIS WIRE ACTIVATES THE SOLENOID WHICH MAKES THE STARTER CRANK OVER

NOTICE MY 2ND PIC---USING A REMOTE STARTER SWITCH----THIS BASICALLY ELIMINATES HAVING TO START IT WITH THE KEY (FOR "BUMPING" ETC)

SO WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS "A" (12 VOLTS) GOING INTO THE REMOTE STARTER----WHEN YOU PUSH THE BUTTON ON THE REMOTE STARTER----YOU ARE FEEDING THE 12 VOLTS TO "C" ("S TERMINAL")

AS LONG AS YOUR BATTERY CABLE IS ON "A"----STARTER IS ON "B". USING A SCREWDRIVER BETWEEN "A" AND "C" WILL ALSO MAKE THE ENGINE CRANK

HAVE YOU REMOVED THE WIRES TO "C" AND "D" AND TESTED FOR VOLTAGE WITH THE "KEY IN START POSITION". SHOULD DIE WHEN YOU RELEASE THE KEY. THIS GOES TO "C"!

AM I MAKING SENSE?

GIMME MORE INFO---CAN YOU SEND PICS?

I BROKE MINE IN '09---HAD MANY COMPLICATIONS---BLOOD CLOTS--AND A SCREW INSTALLED AND A GREENFIELD BLOOD FILTER WHEN IT BROKE THE 2ND TIME, JUST OUT OF THE CAST. WHILE I WAS LAID UP, MY SISTER SORTA SHOWED ME HOW TO WORK THE COMPUTER, I STARTED ANSWERING QUESTIONS HERE. IF YOU ARE STILL IN A CAST, YOU BETTER BE MOVING IT AROUND THE BEST YOU CAN TO WARD OFF THE BLOOD CLOTS!

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Apr 21, 2013.
Thanks again for your help.
The wiring schematics for my Dj5 has a neutral/safety/backup switch on the tranny that connects to the S post so the engine can't turn if tranny is in gear.
When I purchased there was no wire attached. I am wondering if you are right about having the D wire on C. I believe I have tried that before and no success.
I will try again tomorrow.
If I change the ignition wire to C(S) instead of D(I) then what would post to D(I)? Maybe nothing?
Again many thanks for your expertise!
I was 2 weeks from running my 20th marathon and was putting new shocks on the Jeep. They were a tight fit so I kicked them in place with my right foot. No big deal until 2 days later when I went on a run. Extreme pain for 4 miles.
I had a Jones fracture of the 5th metatarsal. A month later had the screw job and will remove boot this week!


Tiny
77jeepdj5
Apr 21, 2013.
SITE IS STILL MESSED UP FROM REMODEL. PICS AIN'T COMING THRU. ETC

MAYBE IT'LL BE FIXED SOON

I THOUGHT MY LAST RESPONSE WAS LOST----30 MINUTES LATER IT RE-APPEARS?

NOTHING LIKE BEING SCREWED !

LET'S TRY TO STAY ON THIS POST

I DON'T SEE AN AUTOMATIC VERY OFTENYOU ARE RIGHT!

"S" WIRE GOES BACK TO THE IGN SWITCH FROM "S" TERMINAL ("C") ON THE SOLENOID. HOWEVER THE NEUTRAL SAFETY IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN "EXTRA" SWITCH IN THE WIRE. ON A MANUAL TRANNY, THE CONNECTOR IS JUST "JUMPED ACROSS" WITH A METAL TERMINAL SEE SECTION C8 IN THE 2ND DIAGRAM. IF MY DIAGRAMS SHOW UP AT ALL

MAYBE YOUR NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH IS BAD---CAN YOU JUMP OVER IT, JUST AS A TEST?

WHEN YOU ARE MESSING WITH THIS STUFF---STAY CLEAR OF THE FAN--BELTS--OTHER MOVING STUFF!

I COLORED THIS DIAGRAM IN MICROSOFT PAINT---IF IT HAD A TRACER ON A WIRE, THE COLOR WAS NOT NOTED, SO I USED BLACK DASHES (TO DENOTE THEM). WHITE WIRES ARE "BLACK". THE RIGHT SIDE DIAGRAM OVERLAPS THE LEFT "THE BEST", IF YOU BLOW 'EM UP AND CONNECT THEM

THE ONLY THING DIFFERENT ON THESE DIAGRAMS--AS ON MY JEEP IS: I HAVE THE STARTER. AND POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE ( ALONG WITH ACCESSORIES) SWAPPED ON MY JEEP. THIS PUTS THE POSITIVE CABLE AND "S" TERMINAL SIDE BY SIDE. CAN BE JUMPED WITH A SCREWDRIVER

IN OTHER WORDS "A AND B" ARE INTERCHANGEABLE."C" AND "D" REMAIN THE SAME

YOUR TURN

THE MEDIC


Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
Apr 21, 2013.
Thanks.
Good ground and when I attached jumper from battery post to C post nothing.
Time for a new solenoid?
Thanks again.


Tiny
77jeepdj5
Apr 22, 2013.
Good ground to solenoid and no click with screwdriver test nor jumper cable test.
I am getting 12 volts to ign wire on and off solenoid and 12 volts to coil.
I have hooked cables up exactly as in your photo and every other conceivable way and nothing.
I still wonder if I fried this solenoid?
Thanks again.
AD


Tiny
77jeepdj5
Apr 23, 2013.

AD