1997 Pontiac Sunfire No brake pedal pressure.

Tiny
JIMW55
  • MEMBER
  • 1997 PONTIAC SUNFIRE
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 178,000 MILES
I replaced brake line from master cylinder to right rear wheel and also replaced front brake pads and rotors. I can't get all the air out of the system and I have no brake pedal pressure and no brakes. Can you offer any suggestions? I have bled both bleeder valves on the master cylinder and also the rest of the system but nothing but air comes out of the bleeder at the last wheel no matter how many times you open the bleeder.
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Sunday, May 3rd, 2009 AT 9:38 AM

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Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
Get an assistant to pump the pedal gently as you open the bleeder, leave it open and put your finger over the bleeder, do this with the key "OFF" Do not allow the master to run dry! Also, the right rear and left front are paired as this car has a diagonal brake system. Bleed both! Get fluid to the rear wheel first.
If it has anti-lock, follow these instructions:
BLEEDING BRAKE SYSTEM NOTE: If any brake component is repaired or replaced and air is allowed to enter system, entire bleeding procedure must be followed. Use only DOT 3 brake fluid from a sealed container. Protect vehicle exterior paint and electrical components from possible brake fluid spillage. PREFERRED METHOD Before bleeding system, using scan tool, place hydraulic ABS modulator/motor pack assembly displacement cylinder pistons in upper position. To position pistons, connect scan tool to Data Link Connector (DLC), and then select F5: MOTOR REHOME. Motor rehome cannot be performed if any current Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are set. Diagnose and repair DTCs. See DIAGNOSIS & TESTING . Bleed entire system using either MANUAL BLEEDING or PRESSURE BLEEDING procedure. If scan tool is not available, alternate method may be used. See ALTERNATE METHOD procedure. ALTERNATE METHOD CAUTION: DO NOT use alternate method if ABS warning indicator is illuminated and DTCs are set. Follow procedure exactly, DO NOT place foot on brake pedal unless directed to do so. With foot off brake pedal, start engine and run for at least 10 seconds while observing Amber ABS warning indicator. If ABS warning indicator illuminates and remains illuminated after 10 seconds, DO NOT bleed brakes. Scan tool must be used to diagnose ABS malfunction. 1. If ABS warning indicator illuminates for about 3 seconds and then goes out, and remains off, turn ignition off. Repeat procedure a second time. If ABS is okay, bleed entire system using either MANUAL BLEEDING or PRESSURE BLEEDING procedure. 2. MANUAL BLEEDING ABS Modulator Assembly (Priming) Clean master cylinder reservoir cover and surrounding area. Remove reservoir cap. Ensure reservoir is full. Install reservoir cap. Attach a clear hose to rear bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. See Fig. 1 . Slowly open rear bleeder valve. Depress brake pedal until fluid begins to flow. Close valve and release brake pedal. Repeat procedure until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Repeat procedure for front bleeder valve. TCS Modulator Assembly (Priming) Clean master cylinder reservoir cover and surrounding area. Remove reservoir cap. Ensure reservoir is full. Install reservoir cap. Remove TCS modulator assembly bolt to bracket to access bleeder valves. Attach a clear hose to right side bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. Slowly open right side bleeder valve. Depress brake pedal until fluid begins to flow. Close valve and release brake pedal. Repeat procedure until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Repeat procedure for left side bleeder valve. Brake Caliper/Cylinder (Bleeding) Clean master cylinder reservoir cover and surrounding area. Remove reservoir cap. Ensure reservoir is full. Install reservoir cap. Raise and support vehicle. Attach a clear hose to specified bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. Bleed brakes in the following sequence: 1. Right Rear " Left Rear " Right Front " Left Front " Open bleeder valve. Slowly depress brake pedal. Close bleeder valve and slowly release brake pedal. Wait 5 seconds and repeat process until brake pedal is firm and no air bubbles are seen in hose. Tap lightly on caliper or backing plate to free trapped air. Repeat procedure at remaining bleeder valves. Ensure reservoir is full. Bleed ABS modulator assembly. 2. ABS Modulator Assembly (Bleeding) Ensure reservoir is full. Attach a clear hose to rear bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. See Fig. 1 . 1. Depress and hold brake pedal. Slowly open rear bleeder valve and allow fluid to flow. Close valve and release brake pedal. Wait 5 seconds, repeat procedure until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Repeat procedure for front bleeder valve. 2. TCS Modulator Assembly (Bleeding) Ensure reservoir is full. Attach a clear hose to right side bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. 1. Depress and hold brake pedal. Slowly open right side bleeder valve and allow fluid to flow. Close valve and release brake pedal. Wait 5 seconds, repeat procedure until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Repeat procedure for left side bleeder valve. 2. Completing Bleeding Procedure Lower vehicle. Ensure reservoir is full. Turn ignition on, with engine off. Apply moderate force to brake pedal, noting travel and feel. If pedal is firm and travel is not excessive, start engine and recheck. If okay, go to step 4). If pedal feels soft or has excessive travel, go to next step. 1. Using scan tool, release and then apply each ABS motor 2-3 times, and cycle each ABS solenoid 5-10 times. When finished, apply front and rear motors to return pistons to upper position. DO NOT drive vehicle. Repeat manual bleeding procedure. 2. If scan tool is not available, with foot off brake pedal run engine for at least 10 seconds to initialize ABS. DO NOT drive vehicle. After 10 seconds, turn ignition off. Repeat procedure 5 times to ensure trapped air has been dislodged. Repeat manual bleeding procedure. 3. Road test vehicle, making several normal (non-ABS) stops from a moderate speed. 4. PRESSURE BLEEDING Beginning Bleeding Procedure Clean master cylinder reservoir cover and surrounding area. Remove reservoir cap. Ensure reservoir is full. Attach Bleeder Adapter (J-35589) to reservoir. Attach bleeding equipment and pressurize system to 5-10 psi (.35-.70 kg/cm 2 ) for 30 seconds to ensure there are no leaks. Slowly increase pressure to 30-35 psi (2.1-2.4 kg/cm 2 ). ABS Modulator Assembly Attach a clear hose to rear bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. See Fig. 1 . Slowly open rear bleeder valve. Allow fluid to flow until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Close valve and repeat procedure for front bleeder valve. 1. CAUTION: DO NOT allow brake fluid to contact motor pack or electrical connectors. Premature failure of motor pack may result. To bleed modulator at brake pipe connections, position shop towel below brake pipes. Using flare wrench, slightly open forward brake pipe fitting at ABS modulator assembly. Allow air to escape and then tighten fitting. Bleed remaining brake pipe connections at ABS modulator assembly from front to rear. 2. TCS Modulator Assembly Remove TCS modulator assembly bolt to bracket to access bleeder valves. Attach a clear hose to right side bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. Slowly open right side bleeder valve. Allow fluid to flow until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Close valve and repeat procedure for left side bleeder valve. 1. CAUTION: DO NOT allow brake fluid to contact motor pack or electrical connectors. Premature failure of motor pack may result. To bleed modulator at brake pipe connections, position shop towel below brake pipes. Using flare wrench, slightly open right side brake pipe fitting at TCS modulator assembly. Allow air to escape and then tighten fitting. Bleed remaining brake pipe connections at TCS modulator assembly from right to left. 2. Brake Caliper/Cylinder Raise and support vehicle. Attach a clear hose to specified bleeder valve and submerge other end of hose in a container of clean brake fluid. Open bleeder valve. Allow fluid to flow until no air bubbles are seen in hose. Tap lightly on caliper or backing plate to free trapped air. Close valve and repeat procedure on remaining bleeder valves: Right Rear " Left Rear " Right Front " Left Front " Completing Bleeding Procedure Lower vehicle. Remove pressure bleeding equipment and check reservoir level. Turn ignition on, with engine off. Apply moderate force to brake pedal, noting travel and feel. If pedal is firm and travel is not excessive, start engine and recheck. If okay, go to step 4). If pedal feels soft or has excessive travel, go to next step. 1. Using scan tool, release and then apply each ABS motor 2-3 times, and cycle each ABS solenoid 5-10 times. When finished, apply front and rear motors to return pistons to upper position. DO NOT drive vehicle. Repeat pressure bleeding procedure. 2. If scan tool is not available, with foot off brake pedal run engine for at least 10 seconds to initialize ABS. DO NOT drive vehicle. After 10 seconds, turn ignition off. Repeat procedure 5 times to ensure trapped air has been dislodged. Repeat pressure bleeding procedure. 3. Road test vehicle, making several normal (non-ABS) stops from a moderate speed. 4. Fig. 1: ABS Modulator Assembly Front & Rear Bleeder Valves Courtesy of GENERAL MOTORS CORP.


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Sunday, May 3rd, 2009 AT 9:47 AM

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